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Keith at Tregenna
20th March 2013, 07:16 PM
Loved the budget, a penny off a pint, All well and good, but have no longer any local boozers to go to if I wanted to to. Lots of promises for next year and the year after: Meanwhile, the rest goes to pot: Money goes to money, need to win the lotto as millionaires will be better off.

K.

Keith at Tregenna
20th March 2013, 09:28 PM
The Chancellor admitted the economic recovery was taking longer than hope, but "by setting free the aspirations of this nation, we will get there."

Labour leader Ed Miliband said the Chancellor should be "undoing the damage he has done to family budgets, investing properly in our infrastructure and getting growth moving".

Budget 2013 'is more of the same,' says Ed Miliband

Labour leader Ed Miliband attacks George Osborne's Budget and says it is "more of the same" from a "downgraded Chancellor".

LINK: Video: Budget 2013 'is more of the same,' says Ed Miliband - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/budget/9943898/Budget-2013-is-more-of-the-same-says-Ed-Miliband.html)

Wake me up, when someone builds a new pub, puts the heart and soul back into communities. at a price per pint that is affordable to every working man. Beer was available and cheep to all in the middle ages as the water was poor. Now at exhorbitant prices for water, beer is no longer a cheap alternative.

K.

happy daze john in oz
21st March 2013, 12:51 AM
I have had a look at the UK budget on line. The lowering of some taxes and duties will bring relief to many and may assist in increasing sales and so revenue. It is not easy for any country to rein in such an amount of debt without causing pain to some. Growth around the globe is begining to increase but there is still a long way to go. One of the main problems is that people are now begining to save rather than spend, this puts a drag on gov revenue but if inflation is kept under control then I think with 12 months there is a good chance you will be well on the way to a full recovery.
The lesson in all of this for all govs is do not spend more than you have. Putting it all on the national credit card only puts pressuer on future generations.

Red Lead Ted
21st March 2013, 01:22 AM
You got it right there mate, I still maintain you cut a rotten ladder down beginning with the top rungs not the bottom, What did i get from the budget personally, Well as i am not a millionaire i got nothing like £45.000 tax relief in fact i cant see that i got anything. I could not believe my listener,s when the chancellor announced he wasn't going to raise fuel duty/ he wasn't going to raise the price of a pint of beer/ The cheers that rang out:confused: me greatly why didnt he at least reduce V.A.T. Which would have helped every one out in this country. OHHHHHHHHHH I forgot he knocked a penny of the price of a pint of beer now that will ring the changes to our economy greatly it could in fact save me about sixpence a week. If i save that up for the next 50yrs what he has saved me. it is roughly the price of a train ticket from Liverpool to Westminster to thank him. I some how doubt either of us will be around. A budget for jobs for U.K. Citizens i pray you are correct Regards John Terry.;)

Tony Wilding
21st March 2013, 01:34 AM
it could have been worse, i was suprised no nasty shocks,

Keith at Tregenna
21st March 2013, 01:57 AM
Will look further in a new dawn, strangely not heard anything yet on or off tobacco, but a penny off a pint, few pubs left to drink in, or smoke outside ? apart from Westminster which still remains above the law, apparently KFC are waiting, Would be the first outlet with a bar and near 24 / 7 HAPPY HOUR. Just a shame really, that the old Kentucky Fried Chicken has been rebranded as KFC as what is served is not clasified as chicken ?

And as the pubs go and they and similar take over, seek to campaign fot a real ash tray:

K.

cappy
21st March 2013, 07:43 AM
never expect out never get nout always a waste of time regards cappy

robpage
21st March 2013, 08:12 AM
I live on the edge of a large public housing Estate , Th pub in the Centre was burned down years ago , then the element that caused it moved into the one at the end of my street , that was another managed pub , now being knocked down and housing built , the next pub was turned into a Tesco Express , There are a lot of elements killed the pub trade , smoking ban did not help , but how nice to go out and not smell of a stale ash tray , but I think one of the biggest killers was taking away the Landlord and using managers , many who move on quickly , breaking the brewery's monopoly did not help either . Wetherspoons make money selling cheap , near end of shelf life beer in soulless pubs , a penny on a pint will not revitalise a dead pub , but a good landlord could .

Jim Brady
21st March 2013, 08:51 AM
They have created one and a half million jobs since they took over,try telling that to the people in the North West where unemployment is rising month on month.I found this very interesting,for every job that was lost in the public sector 6 more were created in the private sector,that is a lot more people paying tax.He then went on to say one of the reasons for the deficit was because of low tax receipts,does that make sense???
Regards.
Jim.B.

cappy
21st March 2013, 08:59 AM
yes jim it makes sense cos the companies like m and s and all big business are not making the profits they were hence no tax receipts like before british business is not in the running at the moment beause of the current world turndown regards yer old mate cappy

Jim Brady
21st March 2013, 09:05 AM
Cappy I thought many of the big busines's paid no tax or very little,i am talking about all those extra people in work on PAYE.
Regards.
Jim.B.

cappy
21st March 2013, 09:33 AM
the money making companies are wot funds the the country with there taxesthe amount of money I or you paid in taxes woudnt mpay your pension for say an average of say 18 years plus your hospital bills and prescriptions not forgetting the mbilions of pounds paid out to our people in benefits of every kind some of which are unbelievable to people who have paid nothing in regards cappy:rolleyes:

Captain Kong
21st March 2013, 04:33 PM
I watched the budget yesterday on TV
I was not impressed,
I did think Miliband made a show of himself leaping about screaming abuse and insults. He never made one constructive reply to the budget.and after all it was his team that got us into debt when they were in last.
He is not a Statesman, I could not imagine him as a PM and speaking in the United Nations.
With a 1.2 trillion pound debt and increasing, how daft to continue paying Billions in AID to 185 countries, many of them richer than us and some are enemies.
Cameron and Hague have already given 200million pounds to the Al Quada backed rebels in Siriya and want to give millions of pounds in weapons to them.
Are these guys mental or what?
So we have to make cut backs to save money that will be given to the same terrorists who are killing our troops in Afghanistan.
Cameron and Hague should be Sectioned under the Mental Health Act.
Miliband is no better.
Who elects these people into Parliament?. Not me, whoever I have voted for has never got in.
Why do we need to pay for 650 MPs, half a dozen good business men could run the country far better. Just do away with politics and Polititians, save millions and let the business men run it like a successful business. Far better.
Brian

Louis the Amigo
21st March 2013, 04:38 PM
Hi shipmates, What a great budget if I go out and drink my normal amount of beer???? I will save 5p Thank you Mr Osborne but what about our credit rateing its not triple A like you said , it would be ??? and why are the food banks full every week with new familys you forgot to say the jobs in your stupid private sector, are part time min wage jobs, that would not buy your lunch for a day. When are you going to get some money back from you mates the bailed out greedy bankers? to stop the cuts to all our services and more job lost in the public sector, Soon we will have no police, nurses or school teachers, 8 pubs and clubs have gone every week for the last two years due to the smoking ban and cost of drink !!! tax on a pint is 55% in the real world not the commons drunks bar. Bring back jellied eels

John Pruden
21st March 2013, 06:47 PM
most of the so called jobs are stacking shelves in a supermarket on buttons? i subsidised two of my boys for five years so they had a good trade now they are under cut by cheep labour from Europe. the country is supposed to be skint food banks for the poor yet we are holding up Europe's banks sending aid to prosperous countries that have nuclear weapons and having troops on the ground in strange countries costing millions every day and putting up hundreds of thousands of immigrants coming in from Europe should we not look at that list first but don't forget WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER??? JP

Jim Brady
21st March 2013, 06:50 PM
The budget,well I suppose its what foot you dig with to think if it was good or bad.I for argument sake realy enjoyed Ed Miliband ripping the back out of Gideon,Gideon and call me Dave sat there like two little schoolboys being bullied, far from them being the Buller Boys.Quite rightly so, four years of high borrowing and four years of no growth!!!And there is worse to come!!!.To me if I was a selfish person,which I am not,it was a none event which took nothing away from me and gave me nothing back,oh sorry 1p off the pint,what an insult to the working man,that should pacify them and keep them happy.Our members on here that pay £4.00 per pint can now drink 400 pints and get one free!!!I digressed there from being selfish what I was about to say was I am not affected directly but I am affected in so much that it affects my grandson and another 993.000 under 24's.That means 21.1%- more than one in five are jobless.It is soul destroying,wanting to work applying for jobs getting an interview and getting knocked back.Last week my grandson went for an interview in the morning they said they would ring him in the afternoon he was in my house when his mobile went,his face lit up,he went into the other room to take the call and came back with his face tripping him "no grandad" how do you think that made me feel,and it's going to get worse if this clown doesn't take a change of direction.The government like to blame the scrounger,in actual fact 48% of the welfare budget goes to pensioners and the kids that you see hanging around the streets on "Jobseekers Allowance"are a burden for the large amount of 3% of the welfare budget.
Regards.
jim.B.

vic mcclymont
21st March 2013, 07:13 PM
Trouble with Millibund and Ballsies is that they have no credible alternative, remember these two guys were in the Treasury when Golden ******** spent all the loot, and were supposed to look after the money.

Ron B Manderson
21st March 2013, 07:46 PM
As the song goes " it's the same the whole world over
It's the rich that gets the pleasure and the poor gets all the blame"
Ron the batcave

happy daze john in oz
22nd March 2013, 12:31 AM
The situation in UK is no different to that of many including Oz. Govs of all sides like to say how many jobs they created. Unless it is a public service job the gov creates no jobs at all. A job only exists if there is a demand for the product or service associated with that position, no demand no job. Gov however can attempt to create situations where demand may grow, reducing taxes and duty sometimes allows business to improve nad grow. By not increasing duty and taxes they have created something of a physcological improvement in the current cycle. Most voters expect taxes and duties to ridse in a budget and given the current economic situation in UK it would have been anticipated. The fact they have not, and even reduced some, may be an effort to encourage afeeling of improvement amongst the community. That may then be a catylist to encourage the community totake a more positive approach.

j.sabourn
22nd March 2013, 09:17 AM
Shocking political farce in the hallowed halls of Canberra yesterday. The Labour Party is going the same way it did in the UK, if they go out in September would like to see the true bottom line of the Treasury. Whoever picks up the reins is going to have a shock I believe. Only a politician could have the bare necked gall some of them have and to crown it all, they think they are doing a good job. John Sabourn.

John Pruden
22nd March 2013, 09:42 AM
why don't we just go back to the days of the sack your p45 and the dole why should incompetence pay of? the government pay many thousands to people who have cost the tax payer the same its a crazy world?jp

cappy
22nd March 2013, 10:00 AM
as an ex employer the thought of getting rid of someone was quite worrying and if not done correctly could cost a lot of money and time which could have been better spent on helping the business grow example 20 to 30 girls all sewing an average of 4000 thousand meters per day and 2or 3 sewing1500 hundred per day why should they expect the same wage I found the girls themselves usually gave the slackers short shrift but had we been a union shop you couldn't get rid of them regards cappy ps I await a certain persons comments up the union yes right up

robpage
22nd March 2013, 10:42 AM
You can though redeploy them with a change of job within the job description , That can even be a bloody awful job . You can also give them a series of warnings that are performance related . DO it right and they will go . For instance you put them somewhere where they will want to leave . Every time they are late issue a warning , I have personally never resorted to these methods but we had a departmental manager who could make hell feel good , all within a unionised environment

cappy
22nd March 2013, 11:27 AM
a company which my good buddy ran got an order from a abroad on a a regular basis which needed to be supplied instantly he sat with his people and suggested as the order was important to the company and themselves how they would feel if they got every Friday afternoon off but whenthe specific order came every 6 or 7 weeks they would work sats on double time all agreed and sighned to this deal the 2nd time the order came one didn't turn up my buddy took on her machine and did the work to keep the job right she had the sickness etc but came in mon ok the next time the order came all hands turned in except her again of cause other staff kicked up causing bad feeling so this person then she had basically then5 days pay for no work giving her abollocking she cleared off crying her workmates booed her as she left of cause the tribunal of 3 wise men came and out of the blue he was askeddidyou know she cant read his answer I set her on to sew not read then did you read the contract out to her no he replied gave it to her she signed her copy then he said the contract was void she got 6 months wages plus holiday pay for wrongfull dismissal even though she walked out herself bosses don't sack good workers if they have got work for them regards cappy

robpage
22nd March 2013, 12:12 PM
You have to dot every "I" cross every "T" , and then you can get a clever lawyer try and screw you in the tribunal . I saw a shipping company suspect its cafeteria employees of embezzlement put undercover police on board , they bought goods with marked notes , at the end of the shift they searched the employee and the marked notes were in his wallet . He had of course run out of change at the till and put his own money in , It being quite normal to carry £50 of pocket change , and taken the notes out to reimburse himself . There was no proof that he did not do it that way . The other was a barman who sold a non listed brand of Scotch , he had done it because the passenger wanted that brand and he had bought himself one that day at the French terminal so he swapped it , just to please a passenger . I saw that a long time ago , court case and QCs were made to look like monkeys , so I remembered the words of an old but wise second engineer , who said , when you get a Chief's job son remember there are two types of Chief Engineer , nasty bustards and silly bustards , it is your choice . On the three occasions in forty five years of work that a dismissal was needed , I made sure it stuck , but it is not easy , really not easy . Everything documented , the "do you understand " question asked repeatedly , copies of everything , CCTV recordings high enough quality to be evidential , don't sling mud , if you want it to stick use Epoxy Cement

Captain Kong
22nd March 2013, 12:48 PM
My mate had a Stainless steel Profile cutting business, a skilled job.He took on two apprentices both on trial and a temporary agreement.
A Union Man came and demanded that he paid the apprentices the same pay as the skilled men, he refused, so the Union Man said he would call everyone out on strike.
He called the two lads into the office and said he could not keep them on and they were finished.
He told the Union man to go and make love to himself. Two lads had just lost their jobs.
Some Union man that was.
Brian

robpage
22nd March 2013, 01:09 PM
If in the same boat as him Brian , a call to the local press and a bit of publicity would have bee a great idea , the tip pot dictators that formed themselves as Branch officials will survive long after the jobs have gone , Derbyshire NUM has two officials and NO workers , my question would be what does that office cost , where does teh funds come from , and what they do-da do there all day , the Unions are needed still , but the loonies that took them over are still about

EIFION
22nd March 2013, 02:47 PM
The only thing this stupid Osborne bloke did was to introduce into the UK what nearly distroyed the US ecomomy, by that I mean sub prime mortgages. Couple to that his introduction of a house prise bubble when most experts agree that house prises are allready too much and you have a recipe for disaster. When will these right wing prats realise their game is over.
Add to that he lied when he said he was increasing the tax threshold for everyone, he has frozen it for pensioners actually as well as bringing forward the date the UK will have two different old age pension recipients depending if you are allready retiered now or in 2016

Jim Brady
22nd March 2013, 06:47 PM
Two apprentices lost their jobs and nobody did anything about it,disgusting!!Beside the union guy being strung up the workforce deserved stringing up along with him,how can people stand by and let that happen.It would'ntve happened to a son of mine that union guy would've never held that position again.Everybody knows that apprentice's are on a rate increasing each year until becoming a full blown tradesman.
Regards.
Jim.B.

Captain Kong
22nd March 2013, 07:10 PM
Thats the way it was told to me Jim.
I agree with you.
Cheers
Brian.

John Pruden
22nd March 2013, 07:28 PM
one of my grandsons has moved down south to get a trade that is a sign of the times tradesmen deserve a good standard of living two of my sons cost me a fortune while serving their time they were paid next to nothing and i subsidised them until time served now its hard for them to get work they are undercut by immigrants?jp

Colin Hawken
22nd March 2013, 07:45 PM
Rob,#3, I still like the Lady Hamilton,one of Pompeys better Pubs. From someone who lives in Southampton,that is praise indeed. :D

happy daze john in oz
23rd March 2013, 01:12 AM
Two apprentices lost their jobs and nobody did anything about it,disgusting!!Beside the union guy being strung up the workforce deserved stringing up along with him,how can people stand by and let that happen.It would'ntve happened to a son of mine that union guy would've never held that position again.Everybody knows that apprentice's are on a rate increasing each year until becoming a full blown tradesman.
Regards.
Jim.B.

Here in Oz there rae two places you cannot be sacked from, one is being an apprentice, you can be laid off due to lack of work but not sacked. The other is in the university system. But I did manage to get rid of my functions manager though. Found enough breaches of protocol and health regulations to put him on the spot, he then resigned and saved ne the trouble.

happy daze john in oz
23rd March 2013, 01:22 AM
John in reply to #20. In the late 60's I saw a play be the name of 'Thark' it was a farec and a great laugh, but the current farce in Canberra has nothing on it. What a collection, Rudd the dud, Gillard the Goose with her mate the ugly duckling ( W. Swan) between them could not organise a decent P15s up in a brewery.
I do believe they will get the boot come September, if they go that long, but then the clean up. When Howard took over in 96 there was a 96 billion $ deficit, this time will be closer to $150 billion. But the Labor party is now more divided than ever, with Rudd saying he will stay in parliament there will always be conflict waiting to happen. Lies, bad policy, attempts to gag free speech, this is no way to run a country. Get rid of all govs, replace them with business people and run the country as a business because that is in fact what it is. All countries are businesses of varying kinds and business people of quality can run them far better than this lot. The best was the so called mining super profits tax whixh to date had raised no tax at all. Did the gov never consider that companies such as BHP employ some of the best accountants in the world, far smarter than any the gov could find, and they know how to legaly avoid paying any more tax than they need to.

j.sabourn
23rd March 2013, 02:43 AM
John I see the one who is /was accused of using union funds is still sitting there in parliament, and on his decision and backing of the quagmire/government would have depended the right of free speach if it had got any further, before the implosion. Surely the people of Australia deserve better than what they have at present. The private affairs of their leader, which cannot be private if you are the so called leader of a country, would have put me off before she ever started, although not a prude, I do believe good morals should come from the top as an example, some example here I"m sure. John Sabourn

j.sabourn
23rd March 2013, 04:16 AM
I have noticed that whenever a politician is interviewed on the success of his or her party they always refer to the number of Bills or new Laws they have pushed through during their term. This is irregardless whether they were good legislation or bad, I think they are thinking they are playing draughts or snakes and ladders, and not throwing other peoples money around, altering peoples lifestyles and beliefs for the sake of their own perverse asperations to power. I think this sense of power some of these dimwits possess must act like an aphrodisiac to some and must get their kicks from. To me a good government is not by the number of Bills that go through, this only just shows the previous bad legislation, I have yet to see a politician work to the saying that if it works good then leave it alone. As regards this government here in Oz and by what I believe in the UK both leave a lot to be desired. John Sabourn

happy daze john in oz
23rd March 2013, 05:33 AM
John you are so correct in your assesment of the situation. Good governance is about making the country strong, allowing people to make their own decissions on how they wish to live, not have a gov telling them 'we know what is best for you', and having a gov that is not full of posers and actors. Rather one that sits quietly in the bacjground getting on with the job in hand without having to say all the time 'look at me, look at me'

Captain Kong
23rd March 2013, 09:41 AM
Hi John
I saw on Al Jazeera TV News yesterday that Rudd has stepped down from the leadership fight and The Young `Lady`
Julia is now unopposed as leader of the Labour Party,
There seems to be more clowns down there than over here,
If there is an Idiot then elect it.
.
. Have you noticed, every bit of trouble, every financial problem , every war, is always caused by Politicians.
To make a happy world Get rid of Politics and Politicians.
We do not need them, People just want to live a happy life without interference. So just get rid of the Vermin.
Cheers
Brian.

John Pruden
23rd March 2013, 09:43 AM
having read some of the interesting posts here i think industry needs unions more than ever now than before with the influx of cheep labour coming in very little protection will be given to the worker? it will be a case of if you don't like it there's the door and we can get cheaper!!!! the greed will take over and any health and safety will go we will have to draw a line in the sand somewhere. Britain today a couple of bits of bad luck and you could be sleeping on a park bench we were lucky jobs were abundant now lucky if you can keep a job for more than a six month contract that you have to go along with. no ones job is for life now.jp

Captain Kong
23rd March 2013, 09:58 AM
Unions are a good thing for the workiers.
But they have a habit of being corrupt when they see the rewards of being a Union Official.
We need UInions, BUT....
No Union Official should be on a higher wage than the people they represent, Expenses should be closely monitored. and when they call the workers out on strike then as the wages of the workers are stopped during the strike then the Union mans wages should also be stopped for the duration.
No Union Official should have a pension greater than the workers they represent. and many other things.
Cheers
Brian.

John Pruden
23rd March 2013, 10:03 AM
brian MPS are supposed to be good for the people{till they queue at the trough} and see what they can get out of it were there's money comes greed. ever know a poor MP??jp:p

cappy
23rd March 2013, 10:44 AM
p0liticians and unions use the working men as donkeys regards cappy:mad::mad:

cappy
23rd March 2013, 10:52 AM
yes john but never about the bills going in his pocket regards cappy:mad:

Red Lead Ted
23rd March 2013, 11:27 PM
Is there honestly one member of this forum that was never a member of a trade union during there working life, You certainly wouldn't have made it aboard any ship without the N.U.S. However good or rotten they were, So all be honest in your replies is there one member that was never paying subs. And so why not let the people in the work place be any different today and be denied representation. Terry.:)

Keith at Tregenna
23rd March 2013, 11:43 PM
GMWU: Later incorporated the boiler makers.

MUCH NEEDED NOW, AS THEY WERE THEN:

K.

j.sabourn
24th March 2013, 01:18 AM
Ted, I for one have always been a member of a Union. However saying that one of the last union meetings I was at there was a vote on a certain subject and was supposed to go on a show of hands. 99.9 per cent voted for the subject. This was not however carried out to the members wishes. The Chairman considered himself the owner of the Union and went totally against the members wishes and went the other way. The principles of the union movement I totally agree with, however to a lot it is now a stepping stone to a career in politics. I would never vote for a so called leader of the movement, the ordinary rank and file member however is a different proposition. The Trade Unions have done a lot of good in the past as well as having received a lot of bad publicity from the press. I have no doubt there is still a need for the Unions in a lot of the trades. Cheers John Sabourn.

Robin Ellis
24th March 2013, 02:37 AM
When I joined the MN I joined the MNAOA. (Merchant Navy and Airline Officers Association).
Coming ashore I joined the EMA (Engineers and Managers Association) later known as PROSPECT.


I have always paid my union dues and although I have not always agreed with decisions taken by my union reps I have always gone along with them and have always encouraged new entrants to join a union or association.

And I agree with red led ted in that people today should not be denied representation.
Maybe if union membership was made compulsory for certain trades it would cut down on the amount of immigrant labour or casual labour that is used.

John Pruden
24th March 2013, 09:22 AM
the penny is finally dropping immigrants are not getting council houses until they have bean here 2/5 years that should slow things down? is squatters rights still going? so now close any loopholes and if they cannot prove accommodation deport immediately at thier cost not ours? the same rule should apply to any financial benefits as well if you can't support yourself then why should we!!!!!jp

Jim Brady
24th March 2013, 10:52 AM
Fine words John but there is a difference between an immigrant and an asylum seeker.It is the asylum seekers that re causing us the problems,these wont be left out on the street as it would be against their human rights so they will still be found homes.
Regards.
Jim.B.

cappy
24th March 2013, 10:55 AM
the white mans burden grows and grows and grows etc regards cappy

cappy
24th March 2013, 11:02 AM
robin did you ever check wot your union presidents were costing ie cars offices insurances pensions secretarys lunches and salaries compared to wot you were getting regards cappy

John Pruden
24th March 2013, 11:15 AM
Jim that is one of the loopholes to be terminated. but i think coming here dumping your passport and saying someone is going to harm you is like an old joke we have heard it loads of times but all the paperwork should be done even before they get into this country.jp

Jim Brady
24th March 2013, 11:54 AM
robin did you ever check wot your union presidents were costing ie cars offices insurances pensions secretarys lunches and salaries compared to wot you were getting regards cappy

Cappy I imagine you told your workers what you were getting out of your company compared to what they were getting.
Regards.
Jim.B.

vic mcclymont
24th March 2013, 12:32 PM
The big difference is company owners put there money where there mouths are. union bosses put there hands in their members pockets.

cappy
24th March 2013, 12:46 PM
good moaning jim firstly my people worked for the company but didn't represent it as a union leader would also they didn't know the size of the overdraft and the hold on my own house the factory or anything else the banks had hold of imust have been doing something right as unlike a lot of business we are still going strong and happy to say without the help of some union prat we now owe the banks nothing and indeed work without an overdraft my people also like the idea of not paying union dues to mainly fat overweight loud mouthed overpaid over pensioned takers now if they were paid the same as the going rate for the people they represented they would be falling over themselves to take reduncy and the big fat pensions the poor donkeys have given them the only reason I was ever in a union was cos I had to be and before any one ses I took the benefits I paid the price of the seamans union ie no ships some union but still millions in the fund wot about a payback ps going out to lunch now on the profit I made without the help of you no who three generations of one family in my factory hadto be doing something right regards your old mate cappy:rolleyes::rolleyes:

robpage
24th March 2013, 03:44 PM
RE Post #45
GMWU: Later incorporated the boiler makers.

MUCH NEEDED NOW, AS THEY WERE THEN:

GMB originates from a series of mergers, beginning when the National Amalgamated Union of Labour (NAUL), National Union of General Workers (NUGW) and the Municipal Employees Association in 1924 joined into a new union, named the National Union of General and Municipal Workers.
The union merged with many others including the Association of Professional, Executive, Clerical and Computer Staff (APEX), the Furniture, Timber and Allied Trades Union (FTAT) and the National Union of Tailors and Garment Workers (NUTGW).
In 1982, following a merger with the Amalgamated Society of Boilermakers, Shipwrights, Blacksmiths and Structural Workers (ASBSBSW), the union was renamed the General, Municipal, Boilermakers and Allied Trade Union, from the initials of which its present name is derived. They give £2,000,000 a year to the labour Party and have two seats on the executive


It is a crying shame that Kevin Curran as General Secretary in 2004 was suspended for Ballot Rigging . When the rot is spread to the top , I suspect it has started at the roots , much needed but discredited

Red Lead Ted
24th March 2013, 05:39 PM
My eldest lad joined a firm of welders after leaving school. Although he was basically a can lad, He has a brain and after 5yrs found himself after wanting it bad enough welding. As the older guys retired he stayed with the firm as more younger welders took there place. They have done a lot of work for the M.O.D. Converting container units into billets for our armed forces etc... He would come home in the evening like he had just stepped out of a coal mine along with the ever growing workforce as the demand from the M.O.D. Increased amongst other orders. Don't get me wrong these lads can earn £1,000 a week if they put in the hours which most like him with kids have done as they wanted to pay off there mortgage. At the same time the owner of this outfit has and still does do very nicely indeed. {Happy Days All round } As the yrs have gone by the firm has kept the same ageing building which is situated on the Lpool dock road. There were a few accidents occurred along with ageing cleaning facilities a hand basin with cold water. They approached the firms owner and asked for running hot water and hopefully showers to be fitted along with some equipment to be brought up to date. Nothing unreasonable the firm was doing well and continued to grow. The owner told them if they don't like it they can be easily replaced as they were earning a very good wage. Then one day the workforce decided to make a stand and gave the owner a compromise give us what we want and let us join the boilermakers union or we walk. No way the owner said. So they turned up one day along with a delegate from the boiler makers union and asked the boss to have a talk with him as they wern,t prepared to start work unless he done so. The foreman informed the owner who came running into the yard and sacked them all on the spot. I told him to find other work which he did. Two weeks went by when he and all the workforce received telephone calls begging them to return to the firm they were aloud to join the boiler makers union and now enjoy a hot shower along with quite a few other luxuries like a cooker to warm Soups, Ready meals etc.. And a voted for union rep who keeps them up to speed with things they never new went on in the back ground of the firm. When the owner sacked the whole workforce what he had not took into account there is no substitute for experience and found his new workforce who he had a hell of a job employing were not up to the job. And as a result he was loosing money and orders. Its been posted here before the old saying be nice to the people you meet on the way up because you will meet the same people on the way down. OH I forgot to mention they also get 2 weeks paid holidays a year which was unheard of before they were aloud into the boilermakers union and the silly accidents have not been as frequent. {ELF AND SAFETY} Regards Lads Terry.:cool:

cappy
24th March 2013, 06:09 PM
nice to hear some good from the union allcant be bad but for me only no thankshappy to hear your boys doing ok terry regards cappy

Jim Brady
24th March 2013, 07:02 PM
Incidently I wonder why Cappy thinks that I am a union man and I most probably vote Labour,he could be a million miles off the mark,maybe it is because I do stick up for the working man and Conservatives cant bring themselves todo that.The last dealings that I had with a union was when I did a short spell in Coartaulds ( spelt wrongly) I'm sure the shop stewards and site convener got an extra little bonus to keep the job running.I was in front of the Personnell Manager and shift manager being given a warning,the shop steward was in attendance he took the side of the company and did me more harm than if I would've been on my own.They said we will give you another chance!!! I jumped up and said "lick'em and stick'em I don't need another chance to work in a dump like this,their faces were a treat.
Regards.
Jim.B.

cappy
24th March 2013, 08:52 PM
does the leopard change his spots methinks not jim ps did you have famly George brady in textiles in leeds sadly long gone now regards non union cappy:cool:

cappy
24th March 2013, 08:55 PM
jim nice to know you are a sticker upper for the working man cappy

cappy
24th March 2013, 09:04 PM
I suppose being a sticker upper for the working manis not far off being a union man me I just stick it up for women regards cappy

Keith at Tregenna
25th March 2013, 01:47 AM
Budget apparently ‘generally good news’ for maritime services:

Consensus has been reached, and the news is good for the Chancellor. The 2013 Budget was broadly positive for the shipping, ports and maritime business services sectors.

LINK: Budget ‘generally good news’ for maritime services | Maritime UK (http://www.maritimeuk.org/2013/03/budget-generally-good-news-for-maritime-services/)

happy daze john in oz
25th March 2013, 04:28 AM
Unions are a good thing for the workiers.
But they have a habit of being corrupt when they see the rewards of being a Union Official.
We need UInions, BUT....
No Union Official should be on a higher wage than the people they represent, Expenses should be closely monitored. and when they call the workers out on strike then as the wages of the workers are stopped during the strike then the Union mans wages should also be stopped for the duration.
No Union Official should have a pension greater than the workers they represent. and many other things.
Cheers
Brian.

Oh sp true Brian, we have an MP here, ex union official up on a host of charges for misuse of uniom members monies. Accused of using union money to procure prostitutes etc. What hope has the worker got, union officials later become MP and bring all the corruption of the unon with them.

happy daze john in oz
25th March 2013, 04:31 AM
Is there honestly one member of this forum that was never a member of a trade union during there working life, You certainly wouldn't have made it aboard any ship without the N.U.S. However good or rotten they were, So all be honest in your replies is there one member that was never paying subs. And so why not let the people in the work place be any different today and be denied representation. Terry.:)

Terry I agree with you, we were all NUS members and members of other unions later in life. But that was then, things have changed and there is now as much corupption in unions as there ever was. The difference is now they openly flaunt it.

happy daze john in oz
25th March 2013, 04:34 AM
Fine words John but there is a difference between an immigrant and an asylum seeker.It is the asylum seekers that re causing us the problems,these wont be left out on the street as it would be against their human rights so they will still be found homes.
Regards.
Jim.B.

Yes JIm, but as has been proven here in Oz some of the so called asylum seekers are infact economic refugees and not genuine. They come for what they can get, not what they can give.

happy daze john in oz
25th March 2013, 04:37 AM
When I joined the MN I joined the MNAOA. (Merchant Navy and Airline Officers Association).
Coming ashore I joined the EMA (Engineers and Managers Association) later known as PROSPECT.


I have always paid my union dues and although I have not always agreed with decisions taken by my union reps I have always gone along with them and have always encouraged new entrants to join a union or association.

And I agree with red led ted in that people today should not be denied representation.
Maybe if union membership was made compulsory for certain trades it would cut down on the amount of immigrant labour or casual labour that is used.

There was a time here in Oz when union membership was compulsory in most jobs. In the 60's membership was about 90%, now down to about 17%. Many workers have been able to achieve better outcomes with employers without a union being involved. Conditions, wages etc are now so improved there appears to be little approval of unions by many workers. Many believed they paid dues and got little in return.

happy daze john in oz
25th March 2013, 04:48 AM
The last Liberal gov here introduced a thing called '\Work choices'. It was an attempt to allow workers to negotiate with employers for conditions and wages suitable for the job. I do agree thta it gave employers a bit too much power, but the concept was good. as an employer you may offer a position with wages and conditions, and as an employer i think you have the right to do so. If a prospective employee then wants to negotiate with the employer for conditions thta suit both parties then that is OK. There are a lot of compnaies that enter into enterprize bargaining, same conditions and wages when ever you work. We now live in a 24/7 society so why should a waiter be paid double time and a half for working Sunday? There are many who like working then as it suits their life style. The problem with the enterprize bargain is that the lazy employee gets the same pay as the guy who works, individual contracts allows for the employer to do something about the slackers.

j.sabourn
25th March 2013, 06:29 AM
Ted your post on your boy was stereotyped many times at sea. I served with quite a lot of different shipowners during my 49 years service. Some were good and others like what you described, refusing to up conditions. Those I didnt agree with I walked, fortuanetly there was originally always plenty of work there during the early days. In my latter life at sea some of these bad shipowners were reverting to their old ways and holding the threat of sacking over peoples heads. Mostly in my latter years I served mainly in the offshore oil and gas industry in the UK and Australia. Re, the North Sea if you saw some of the crews scared to go ashore for a pint in case they were reported on drinking, to me it was very sad, let me also say I refused point blank to change my habits, so was maybe was why I was with so many companys. I would think they now have a work force who are more submissive than we were and dont know any different. Cheers John Sabourn

j.sabourn
25th March 2013, 07:02 AM
John I havent taken much notice of all the political slaver about negotiations etc. However believe in the UK, think it was in early 80 "s they were trying to bring out negotiating company to company, efectively doing away with the Maritime Year Book and wage structures. As I had always conducted my own wages on foreign flag vessels I didnt take too much notice of what happened, so assume they are still doing. There were a few screams at first of foul, but believe as far as I know it worked. However that was with the better companys who reconized the unions. I had the misfortune to sail with some uk companys who reconized no one but themselves, and conditions on such vessels was absymal. I worked nearly 12 years in Australian shipping and as have stated before these were the best conditions I have seen on any other flag. Regardless of liking or not liking unions these conditions were the result of the efforts of such, and as I was willing to accept these wages etc. I cannot decry the conditions they got for seafarers, However I retired in 2002 and rather think some of the conditions have taken a backward step in some cases. Regards John Sabourn

Louis the Amigo
25th March 2013, 11:54 AM
Hi shipmates, time has moved on the unions have very little power in the U.K. Terms and conditions for many people are going back to the dark ages, in many companys longer hours are worked in the U.K. than most E.U. countries see website, With all the new cheap labour flooding into the U.K. from eastern europe things will only get worst in many trades and jobs, but its not all bad? Big Garage owner in Cardiff got shot of some{ three} of his local workers after many years were {costing him a forture in N.I. tax insurance sick pay holidays e.t.c} replaced them with eastern europeans skilled workers good english speakers every thing was well for the first six months, they did the job very well on all types of cars/vans work any amount of overtime, he asked them too, he is a hands on sort of boss, and notice that his cash jobs were not the same ???took a big dive on the books? Well he found out the hard way why? they rented a lock up garage, a few streets away, where his work was sent and the payment were made, he lost many thousands in repairs, the spare parts were on his account ? As Soon as he caught them they walk out on him, They did not pay the rent on his property {he was they landlord } and legged it back to eastern europe. scot free with the money it cost him many thousands of pounds { Now all his workers are locals !!!! }

robpage
25th March 2013, 12:08 PM
Makes me think that the shipowners are getting away with it every day