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happy daze john in oz
30th August 2012, 06:53 AM
Here in Oz today the richest woman, iron ore billionaire, made a statement.
"Stop whinging about how badly off you are, get out of the pub and do a hard days work, if you want to get rich work hard and stop complaining"
The government have taken it as an insult to the workers, but the fact is working hard, provided you can find work, will pay very good dividends.
At the same time we have the builders union here in Melbourne almost getting to the riot stage about conditions on one particular work site opperated by the best and fairest building company in the nation.
Then the headlines in the paper, these workers get 69 days off per year along with all public holiday which amount to 11.
That amounts to 16 weeks per year, the average worker gets 4.
So working hard may make you rich, but being a member of the bulders union will sure get you a lot of time off.

Doc Vernon
30th August 2012, 07:03 AM
I know that i stand up for what she says,as many (not all) Aussies have this habit of wanting to rush off as soon as they can and into the nearest Pub,see it every day here,i Drive to the Station daily to pick Irene up,and you want to see the ammont of Workers with Work Trucks parking and running in to get that first Beer in!
Its quite OK to have a Pint at the end of the day i know,but hell man to see the way some of these Guys gulp down Schooners is just short of madness!
No wonder there are so many drink drivers around!
Yes they really need to stop all this Boozing at the rate they do!
Its bad for them,and its damn well dangerous to everyone else!
I know this is actually about the ones that dont work,but the ones that do,can decrease their intake too!

"Stop whinging about how badly off you are, get out of the pub and do a hard days work, if you want to get rich work hard and stop complaining":thumbsup:

j.sabourn
30th August 2012, 07:19 AM
Ref. the maritime world in Oz. I worked for 11 years in same. In my total time at sea they were the best conditions I have seen. Wish I had been out here 50 years ago. The skies the limit if you want to work. I was called back during my leave periods for other jobs and had no compunction on doing so. It was all extra money. Many refused to do so why I dont know. In 21 years may have been in a pub half a dozen times when home on leave as couldnt see the point when you could buy a case of beer for a quarter of the price. Mind when away if there was a pub handy I was there. The maritime union had a tight grip on the Industry until a few years ago, and if you could live with that there was no problem. I agree with the mining magnate, I wish I was even 20 years younger I would be right back. Hardship what hardship, well paying jobs and a good standard of living. I know there are a lot of low paid workers but the opportunitys are there for the taking a bit of hard work never hurt us when we were younger. Cheers John Sabourn

Gulliver
30th August 2012, 09:19 AM
The drinking culture amongst working people in Japan always used to intrigue me .In ports like Osaka,Nagoya and Yokohama,by the time we shore goers got downtown at about 7.30 pm,we would meet hordes of city businessmen after they’d just finished work in the office.We all know how hardworking those Japanese are,and that applied to free time too.. It was sometimes a struggle to get past all those boisterous, be-suited,bespectacled businessmen having ‘drinkies’ at the end of the day,especially those from the financial institutions who were celebrating a good day.
In the office you’d probably never hear a word from them,the usual picture of Japanese respectability and deference to the boss and loyalty to the Company

But you’d think otherwise if you saw them out-of-hours,and after they’d had their fill of saki,.but more usually whisky-especially the premium gaijin brands like Chivas Regal (other brands are available(,which were hellishly expensive in Japan. We ‘poor’ British seamen would never dream of paying those prices.,so it just shows you that Japanese wages are very good indeed.We stuck to Kirin or Sapporo beer,even that in the 70’s being the equivalent of about £2 per pint.

Later on,we’d see them tipsily weaving their way down to the train stations clutching their briefcases, and grinning “Ah So-Velly Solly.Good Night!."if they accidentally bumped into you
Off to their respectable little wives and respectable little children in their respectable little houses in their respectable little suburbs.. Home at 10pm.
-“ Was A Velly Hard day in the Mitsubishi Corporation Offices today dear.”
“Ah So,hubby?”.Never mind.I make you nice flesh noodles,washed down with saki,then velly nice geisha-style massage for you. You just lie back,no worry.Think about lovely million yen bonus you get next month! “

I used to watch them at the weekends when they’d come down to the harbour to fish. For them,relaxation it is not. It may be thought of as a relaxing pastime for us,but for them it was all about competing with the next fisherman sat further along the quay.Cries of triumph or dismay (“Banzai” etc ),according to their fortune.would render the otherwise calm Sunday morning peacefulness..


顔文字10712

Louis the Amigo
30th August 2012, 01:45 PM
Hi Shipmates, years ago the U.K. was like that As soon you had your wages down the nearest pub/club you run ? but only the single men could afford to do it? The Heavy industrys the steel-workers and dockers and seaman in Cardiff, Kept pubs and clubs in profit for years but not anymore they have gone so has the local pubs/clubs and many jobs in the service sector have allso departed !!! The jobs that replace the well payed jobs in heavy industry dont pay enough to be able to go out on town on the drink, the cost of alcoholic drinks are now very expensive , beyond many young peoples wages so the pubs /clubs are still closeing down every week.Sales of beer in pubs are only a small part of the major brewers business the off lincence trade iwhere the big money is today. Without hard work from her many workers The Aussies richest woman would not have any income from her Iron ore unless she can do all the work herself? did she have it given to her from her dad or husband? All rich people want you to work harder, for less pay so they can make more money.

Roger Dyer
31st August 2012, 05:29 AM
Hi Shipmates,

In support of the comments made by Louis, perhaps, it should be remembered that the woman making this public condemnation of the Australian worker was not a person who had amassed her great wealth, solely, by virtue of her own endeavour. It is true, she does have an eye for business, but we should not lose sight of the fact that she was the eventual recipient of much of the fortune left by her father, Lang Hancock, who, when he died, was arguably Australia's richest man. When making her controversial remarks she also thought that the minimum working wage for Australians should be reduced as well as taxes (taxes !!! -well she would, wouldn't she ?). Personally, I think she has the hide of an elephant and should have thought more carefully before revealing her lack of sensitivity by making such crass remarks. For those of you who may be unaware, this woman has recently been involved in a public stoush with three of her four children, apparently denying them the same level of privelege from which she, herself, was beneficiary (incidentally, a public stoush she unsuccessfully took legal action to suppress from the media).

Although there may be some merit in what she has said, in saying it, she has confirmed for many, the long held view that a vast chasm exists between the lives of the supremely wealthy as opposed to the many others who understand the true meaning of the word, toil. I do not forget there are notable exceptions, such as Bill Gates and other true philanthropists who believe in sharing their wealth amongst the less fortunate of this world. I feel sure that Ms.Rinehart, too, has made charitable gestures from time to time, but I tend to the view that, like so many of her kind, it is not the money that is most important, but what that money can bring - Power !!!

Whilst not denying her the right to make her views public, I wonder how this woman, with her legion of advisers, could have been so lacking in judgement.

........................Roger

happy daze john in oz
31st August 2012, 06:56 AM
Interesting comments Roger, but let me tell you a bit more. Talk back radio in Melbourne last night the question was saked was she right with her comments. 15 callers 13 for 2 against! But as to the dispute on the building site here in Melbourne. At 0300 hours the police secured the site to allow those who wanted to work to go in. A few of the protesters were interviewd by a reporter about it. The commenst,
" we will be here today and we will be here again on Tuesday'
'why not Saturday, Sunday or Monday' asked the reporter
'we do not work weekends and Monday is our RDO'.
Despite the courts ruling the blockade illegal the union continues with the blockade.

Tony Morcom
31st August 2012, 07:56 AM
Sadly it appears to be the case that the amount of bulls*** these people come out with seems to be directly relational to the size of silver spoon they were born with in the mouths. Over the years it has been noticeable that the same often applies to politicians.

Roger Dyer
31st August 2012, 08:25 AM
Hi John,

My friend, I have no disagreement at all with you or anyone else who sees the union action in Melbourne for what it really is, a form of industrial extortion. I firmly believe that, in recent years, actions such as this are responsible for the continuing decline in union support, not only amongst the public at large,but also amongst the very people they claim to represent. It seems ironic that, for so many, unionism is becoming a dirty word, especially at a time when a need for solidarity may soon be called upon. I don't say that lightly, but it does seem to me that so many of the conglomerates and large companies in today's world are intent on screwing the little man (small business) and the working public any which way they can. That said, I do not condone what has gone on in Melbourne. For unions to continue to survive, they have to find an alternative to cracking a nut with a sledge-hammer. They need to get wiser.

My criticism of Gina Rinehart was not only for what she said, but for the
arrogance in her total disregard for the emotive response she would evoke from the Australian public. Quite honestly, John, I dont believe a mini- poll on talk-back radio necessarily echoes the sentiments of the general public, but as usual I could be wrong.

One final question, mate, do you honestly believe that the problems in Oz can be solved simply by reducing the minimum wage of those on 'struggle street' and lowering taxes ?

.................Roger

Neville Roberts
31st August 2012, 03:33 PM
Talking about drinking, in New York City the business men had a three martini lunch ,wich could consist of a couple of martini,s then a pint of bass with lunch, then finish up with a rusty nail or stinger , and that was most of them others would drink more and go back too the office , after work they would be back for more before getting the train home to the missus waitingwith a pitcher of more martini,s .if you were drunk and driving the cops would escort you home that wasin the 60,s how things have changed . an italian cop got me one time on Paddies night a 3 in the morning , and off to jail I went .

Louis the Amigo
31st August 2012, 06:26 PM
Hi Shipmates, The world-wide union movement came into our lifes not because some left winger or trouble maker wanting to cause the rich lords and masters probelms? but to help workers get free from the company store/ and child labour/ and life long poverty for workers. The power has sadly gone back to the bosses' in the western world because any union today who dares' to stand up for any rights or better conditions or more pay, is soon put back into line by the media/ and hundreds of unfair laws brough in by governments and used by they in the pocket judges ,so the unions today have very little funds to fight so allways get a good kicking in court and membership of any trade union in any work place means no promotion !!! ,and first out the door if any short-time working or down-sideing happens in any sector The trade unions have had they day in the U.K. ??? untill people start to see whats happen to all they hard won rights Ref Aussie woman silver spoon job, she has no idea whats it like for honest hardworking people to look after a family on her wages I bet she spends more on her under-wear that many of her workers earn in a month/year. We have many like that in the U.K. Mega rich people who thing nothing of spending £1000 on a lunch time dinner, but getaway with paying min tax??? who pay they worker min poverty wage and tell them to work longer hours with no extra pay,

j.sabourn
1st September 2012, 12:14 AM
Ref. post 10 from Neville. Obviously you living in the States will have more info. than me regarding work ethics. Everyone thinks that the states is the land of milk and honey. I found that working for American owners they wanted their pound of flesh, if you didnt perform you were out, the money was fair and the conditions were good. However what I saw of shore workers most had at least 2 jobs,a day job, and an evening one usually working in a bar or resteraunt. However people were happy with their lot and they do have a fantastic country. The idea out here in certain industrys is that they expect too much money for too little returns. You saw this in the UK when the unions used to try and hold the country to ransom. It doesnt work like that anymore, the old adage a fair days work for a fair days pay should still be the outriding claim. To most normal working people they still stick by this. Cheers John Sabourn

Keith at Tregenna
1st September 2012, 03:26 AM
Whatever, I have done or not, can admit not for this company, but in London SPEAK, Have worked 4 Cunard.

K.

happy daze john in oz
1st September 2012, 06:31 AM
Roger thank you for your comments, they did reflect the current situation here in Oz. From what I hear such actions are now taking place in all Liberal held states, a threat to the gov of the day in those states, including here in VIc nurses, teachers and public servants all wanting more, but mainly trying to turn the people against the dult elected gov of the day.
As to the basic wage, no I agree that many are struggling on low money, but there is the other side to this argument. Here in Melbourne the other week a Thai company came in and made an offer for a motor parts manufacturing company that is in trouble. They want to take the business to Thailand where wages are equivalent of $1.12 per hour. The company has been tempted as they currently pay about $20 per hour which actualy costs them with oncosts, super, work cover etc $26 per hour.
But a the same time trying to tax businesses to the hilt as the current feds want to do is not the answer. These companies such as the iron ore provide thosands of jobs and bring in good revenue for gov. Tax the too highly and you will kill the golden goose.

Ivan Cloherty
1st September 2012, 06:49 AM
Whatever, I have done or not, can admit not for this company, but in London SPEAK, Have worked 4 Cunard.

K.

:confused: :confused: :confused: :(

Les Woodard
1st September 2012, 07:07 AM
Want a little wager that if the Thai company manufactures the parts overseas paying $1.12 per hour that the parts will still cost the same here. Just look at the hospitality industry. They pay there workers about the same as $1.12 per hour yet when booking into the hotel you will be paying the same as Oz or even more per night and expected to tip the workers because of there poor wages. Lets look at the whole picture before putting the boot into unions and workers rights. To read what some put on this site would tend one to think that they are really up themselves and forgotten how they have got what they have now through the sweat of past unionist.

I wonder if the site in question in Melb is shut down because of the weekend and as nearly everyone gets one RDO a month and it falls on that Mon why the hell would they picket a site that is closed or are the scabs working it over the weekend on flat pay.

j.sabourn
1st September 2012, 07:25 AM
The only country which I have ever visited where the people held their past leader with reverence was yugoslavia before it came to the disasterous end which it did after he died. What I could gather from the people was that although he was a communist, his form of communism worked as much so as he also kept the Russians out. His communism was tempered with a bit of free trade, Business people could employ 12 workers unless they had a special dlispensation. The country what I saw of it was still booming after he died. I was there on holiday. However it ever came to the disasterous end it did I fail to understand. He must have been the odd example where a Dictatorship did work to the benefit of the country. Cheers John Sabourn.

Keith Tindell
1st September 2012, 07:42 AM
Hi Ivan, 4cunard, run the two together, regards KT

Keith at Tregenna
1st September 2012, 06:08 PM
Still Working for Cunard:

Just a pun on the unfortunate name of the company, I have never worked for them, but every day work 4 Cunard ?

K.

Ivan Cloherty
1st September 2012, 06:21 PM
Still Working for Cunard:

Just a pun on the unfortunate name of the company, I have never worked for them, but every day work 4 Cunard ?

K.

I am indebted to the two Keiths, must wake up before reading next time :rolleyes:

happy daze john in oz
2nd September 2012, 06:13 AM
I wonder if the site in question in Melb is shut down because of the weekend and as nearly everyone gets one RDO a month and it falls on that Mon why the hell would they picket a site that is closed or are the scabs working it over the weekend on flat pay.[/QUOTE]

Yes Les it may well be their RDO but it sounded so funny at the time the way the union man spoke about it.
I agree many of the benifits have been won by past union members but the problem we face here now in Oz is that our wages are amongst the highest in the world with the hiughest on costs and so many companies can no longer compete in the current global situation. Where it will all end is anyones guess but we can no longer afford to pay more than we earn as a nation. I would like to see all companies doing well and full employment but at the moment cannot see how that can occur.

Tony Morcom
2nd September 2012, 09:36 PM
RDO :confused: RDO ORD OR RD OR

Les Woodard
2nd September 2012, 11:14 PM
I agree many of the benifits have been won by past union members but the problem we face here now in Oz is that our wages are amongst the highest in the world with the hiughest on costs and so many companies can no longer compete in the current global situation. Where it will all end is anyones guess but we can no longer afford to pay more than we earn as a nation. I would like to see all companies doing well and full employment but at the moment cannot see how that can occur.

That might be true for some but most blue collar workers that are not involved with mining have entered to realms of working poor if you delve into wages paid. When they take the average wage they include everyone in that so the poor bugger trying to survive on $500 per week is lumped in with the person earning $5000 per week and deemed to be getting an avarge of $2750 per week and then you say he should take a cut because of it.

RDO Tony Rostered Day Off. When we went to a 38 hour week it was deemed that every fourth week we would get a day of work. Some companies you have the day of without pay and with others it is with pay but is reflected in the hourly rate to compensate that day. It does get a bit more confusing in the aspect that with some you can accrue the RDO's and end up with 13 more days of at the end of the year so a person on four weeks annual leave can end up with a coupld of public holidays thrown in with seven weeks holiday. Now take in the affect that most shift workers are entitiled to an extra weeks holiday because of shift work as well as accruing extra days because of being rostered of on public holiday without pay can snag another weeks leave which would end up giving you nine weeks leave but believe me to get that you will have really earned it. Not like the bloody teachers who get about 13 weeks leave a year plus all public holidays with pay and still only have a six hour working week and some of that is student free time as well as pupil free days and they are usually the ones that are bleeting about having poor pay and conditions having to survive on about $70k a year base. Told you the intial explanation was simple but gets complicated when looked further into it and hence I will be told that I got it wrong because there will be other award conditions with other RDO rules. When it came in I was all for an extra two weeks leave a year and staying on a 40 hour week.

happy daze john in oz
3rd September 2012, 06:28 AM
Some companies run a 19 day month or a a 9 day fortnight. The worst offenders are university lecturers, they will give the students an assignment to do then phone in to say they are working from home. That is they are doing a job somwhere else. But it gets worse. All general uni staff must submit an annual leave form, in most uni's the staff take their annual leave at Christmas/New Year as the uni has no students until early march. All general staff get their leave loading at this time of year whether they take leave then or not.
Tony let me explain leave loading. Way back in the dark old days just after WW2 there was plenty of work and an excess of overtime for those who wanted it. The unions claimed that any one on leave would not earn overtime and would be disadvantaged. So after much wrangling with employers it was agreed that all workers would recieve an additional 17.5% added to their annual leave pay. No other country in the world pays it's employees more to go on leave than to work. Some industries have now encompassed that within the hourly rate, but the building trades, universities, public servants and I belive the education department still pay.
Back to the uni, lecturers were not required to put in leave forms or produce medical certificates if off sick. We had one guy who left our uni to go to another. He was paid 10 years anual leave payments even though he had been on leave at Christmas like the rest of us, long service leave and 15 days per year sick leave unused. This is where the system is so wrong and why many get upset about it. Tony, long service leave came in just after the war to encourage people to stay with an employer. Now after ten or fifteen years depending on the award you are under you will get up to 13 weeks additonal paid leave in one hit.
Award, a predetermined rate of pay and conditions for different industries, there are currently about 300 different ones.
But the best bit, our Feral government minister for industrial relations said on Friday,
'I know how tough it is for the workers, I am on $300,000 a year and find it hard to make ends meet'. Poor bugger!

Louis the Amigo
3rd September 2012, 06:36 AM
Hi shipmates, Hi les woodard, Just a small point high wages dont stop any company competing in the global market place if the product is good ? you cant buy quality in anything for a knock down price, Just buy Chinese/ Indian goods to find out i.e tools for example Look good but after a couple of times fit for the bin, they are many things made in china the same, Aussie should be like the western world and only make quality goods, All the cheap companys with shoddy goods should be in cheap wage countrys as they are today, Every Aussie and western world worker should be on top money, not min wage for a max 38 hr week with all extra days days off and family days off ,This would make in the long term for a happier workforce, with much less illness and better productive. Remember the wealth is created from the bottom up NOT from the top down. dont listern to the media spin Big business does not make any worker rich only themselfs/ shareholders.{ Top money for all workers and top working condition} No low pay or long hours in any of the western world countries.

Des Taff Jenkins
3rd September 2012, 06:46 AM
Hi All.
I agree with Roger, Gina Rhinart would like to see workers back down on the bread line. When she made that statement Bob Kater, a polititian I have not a lot of time for said what she didn't say was that most of her 40 billions came from her father Lang Hancock, who not only had some of the worlds biggest iron ore mines only paying a pittance to the State Govt for the use of.but also some of the biggest Asbestos mines, the small town of Witanoon in West Aus was wiped out by asbestosis, even then it was known to be deadly, Lang Hancock never cleaned it up, kids were playing in the dust in the streets. There again we are back to "Give them bread and circuses" Roll on the next Olympics, 16 Billion to be spent, or is it made there.
Cheers Des

Les Woodard
3rd September 2012, 06:46 AM
What gets up my goat is so many are now retired and set up in retirement and living comfortably and then go on site to condem workers and unions for what conditions they have left yet forget that if it was not for workers going on stike and unions negotiatlng a decent wage that they would not have the lifestyle that they have today. That is why I will defend them all the time simply because I llike what I have and know it was not given to me on a plate like some. I agree that unions have lost sight of where they should be but that is because like politicians it is the people who vote in both union leaders and politicians and after years of right wing white anting we have the results so if you do not like it then look in the mirror to find out who is to blame. I have the satisfaction that I fought a good honest fight while a member of any union even when I could see the back stabbers working their way up the ladder. I have no delusions that they where pleased to hear that I had retired. To sum up on it all. When I retired the workforce then was one of the most gutless ones I was involved with not a bit like the workforce I started out in. Mind you there are still a couple of unions with a bit of intensitanal fortitude still.

happy daze john in oz
4th September 2012, 06:56 AM
Hi All.
I agree with Roger, Gina Rhinart would like to see workers back down on the bread line...........

Sorry Des but I do not agree, she does not want them on the bread line, look how mnay she employs now? But there are a lot out there who think they have a right to all without working for it. But the fact remians that if you do put in you will be rewarded, and as Les points out the unions now have lost their way. Most union leaders are attempting to gain office in parliament at some level, the trough is far better there, and they will sell the workers to get there.
I see she is to begin on anew mine that will employ 8500 workers just to get it up and running. It will be a long way from the nearest city or town and the wages that will be earned there will blow you away.

Louis the Amigo
4th September 2012, 08:09 AM
Hi Shipmates, A mate of mine 17yr old was a ten pound P.O.M. and had a job in one of the mines in Aussie some where in the out-back, The money was good and they all lived in shared accomadation they idea of a good time was putting snakes in your bed, The conditions would have suited a war camp no woman no beer ? not my way of life as a single man I was lucky I went to sea, The wages that they pay is because no one who wanted a normal life would work under ground on shifts , with no social life for months ,unless they needed the money { Debt} or familys to look after were on the run from something in them days. To day with mine owners Like Gina Rhinart they would have to pay me a lot more to get me to work in one of her Asbestos mine ??? A few extra aussie dollars is not enough money, to die in a slow and very painful way!!! she is not doing any one any favours with her jobs only herself. Maybe the unions should sue the mine owner for lost of life?

happy daze john in oz
4th September 2012, 09:31 AM
, Aussie should be like the western world and only make quality goods, All the cheap companys with shoddy goods should be in cheap wage countrys as they are today, Every Aussie and western world worker should be on top money, not min wage for a max 38 hr week with all extra days days off and family days off ,This would make in the long term for a happier workforce, with much less illness and better productive. Remember the wealth is created from the bottom up NOT from the top down. dont listern to the media spin Big business does not make any worker rich only themselfs/ shareholders.{ Top money for all workers and top working condition} No low pay or long hours in any of the western world countries.[/QUOTE]

I agree with your sentiment on this one, but there is a slight problem. The average guy now is looking for the cheapest most times not the best. This is happeneing all around the globe, most things made now are throw away rather than fix if broken. It now costs more to have a TV repaired than to buy a new one. We have a number of companies here that competed in the market with quality goods, most are now either out of business or going that way. Our motor industry can no longer cope with superior imported models very often cheaper than we can produce. While it would be good to have the scenario you suggest with high pay and short hours, we have to compete in a global village where countries such as China, Vietnam, Cambodia are producing the goods so much cheaper.
Whet the unions could be doing is trying to find a way for these countries to bring their standards up to those of the west, then we may have equality.

cappy
4th September 2012, 09:52 AM
unions were the cause of more jobs lost than any company owners seamans strike example in south shields comeon lads 200 pounds aweek in the 60s result shipowners colosing up after using indian crews etc regards cappy from shields

Louis the Amigo
4th September 2012, 02:29 PM
Hi shipmates. The unions did not make the ship- owners employ cheap unskilled labour ? but they accountants' / share -holders saw a easy way how to gain extra profit, and not pay any British taxes' by reflaging they ships see merchant navy history !!! and many British companys sold out they flag to made a quick buck in the short term, the result is that many of them are now out of business, as they did not invest in the modern ships or technology!!! Plenty of other western countries who payed seaman higher wages, than the british merchant navy ,fill in the gaps and some are still many years later doing very well. But other nations have now have the ships and skilled men and women to do the job at sea. So the british merchant navy once the worlds biggest and best is now a very small player.

cappy
4th September 2012, 03:21 PM
louis amigo the strongest unions have all gone shipyards mines seamans textiles why cos the graspers at the top tried to take all the cake

scargill cant get him out 30 years latern
textiles come from abroad
shipyards got none
seamen got none
why cos our wage bills are too high
its now happening in oz
its the same in france
in italy in spain
but not in india china pakistan too many people been carried here
no skills but expect all the cake
regardscappy r683532

Louis the Amigo
4th September 2012, 05:44 PM
Hi Cappy Hi shipmates, The top people at any company private or public or bank in any part of the world !!! allways get the top money and perks. Mr A Scargill of the mines union,{ A real hero } He beat Ted Heath but "the Iron lady" used troops and the police to bring him down very unfair in a democracy? I was working on a ship british cargo the time of the miners strike exporting coal to spain???? from Swansea??? so could not join the strike .The tory government closed down the mines after what happen and many mine workers lost their jobs british coal board} government owned ,to break him and this miners union? and crush every union who had the backbone to stand up for workers rights, in the U.K. Do you thing the low payed workers in India, China , eastern europe, are happy working for peanuts ? the old saying better than slavery or working on the rich masters' field wont last long for them its like working in a sweet shop when you cant buy any sweets. The unoins will become strong in them countrys over time l if they bent government dont jump on them and send them to prison, for re education like the Chinese have been doing for years.{ The unions and the workers will win in the end}The top 7% has all the wealth and power but are only few in number, The Days of big business and they system of keeping us in the bottom place with lack of money, and high debts high bills low wages for most workers will end soon{. No more cheap labour a fair day work for a fair days pay !!!!! world-wide}

cappy
4th September 2012, 06:24 PM
louis amigo
ore carriers coming in the tyne polish ships polish crews working for nix why cos no british shipowneris going toput in milllions of pounds to lose it when the poles do it for nothing
love the hero bit about scargill hes the only president without acompany and still living in a company palace free
seamans union in shields 1950s and 60s an admitted commie but i didnt see him rush to join a rusky ship
demarcationin the shipyards bully boy tactics
unions in the car industry
unions in the steel industry
unions re the olympics
unions in the undergound
my feelings are i never needed them i could always speak for myself and gave a good days work for a good days pay
put the unions in mcdonalds there will be nothing left then apart from the union men jobs for life on the subs youve paid
regards cappy r683532

Jim Brady
4th September 2012, 06:45 PM
Cappy,can you please tell us what the present rate of pay is at sea for Polish,Croation,Filipino and other nation seamen is.I can assure you it is a lot more than nix as you put it.
Regards.
Jim.B.

cappy
4th September 2012, 06:49 PM
dont know but i bet you wouldnt go to sea on them ships for those wages regards cappy

Louis the Amigo
4th September 2012, 07:46 PM
Hi shipmates , Hi Cappy Hi jim The Eastern European seaman and many others, are employed by agencys, All pay is low and hours are long your lucky to have any money How many are payed off after many months at sea with no wages officers, engineers ,and crew or a promise that they will be payed at sometime? in the future and put ashore ? This has happen many times over the last 20 years with out trade unions the seamen, have no rights or defence, against crooks Many have refused to leave the ship The sit in was the common way to get them to pay before the ship change hands or was charter by bogus flag companys. I remember many a crew begging for food reading stories in the newpaper when I was working ashore, this has happen to many crews in many ports.

Des Taff Jenkins
5th September 2012, 03:49 AM
Hi Lous the Amigo
One thing always puzzled me all through my time as a union delegate; and that is why is it that the people who didn't want unions always took the money they got for them, I never come across anyone who said "NO I DONT WANT IT". I had an argument once with a bloke who didn't want to pay his union fees, I said ok if that's what you want good; I will see the boss and tell him too pay you the minimum wage, he said you can't do that, I said of course I can you are not a union member why should you get the same benifits achieved by the members? It was then OH! all right Ill pay. It was not only to pay the union officials but there were lawyers, court appearences, staff etc. My Dad worked double shifts in a steel works but still found time to help people with thier problems, and they were not always union related. I did the same as I that was the way I was brought up.
I will agree with the people like Les who says that now mostly the unions are run by jumped up Uni people who are only trying to get into parliament, but who let it get that bad? The working man is his own worse enemy. And come on all you retirees who fought for the pension you all enjoy. :rolleyes:
Cheers DEs

Les Woodard
5th September 2012, 06:45 AM
Thanks for that Des could not have put it better as there are an awful lot of hypocrites that have ended up retired with good money that the unions worked for. Bet none of those non unoinist who where in executive type jobs did not refuse the flow on affect that bolstered their pay either.

happy daze john in oz
5th September 2012, 06:58 AM
Hi shipmates , Hi Cappy Hi jim The Eastern European seaman and many others, are employed by agencys, All pay is low and hours are long your lucky to have any money How many are payed off after many months at sea with no wages officers, engineers ,and crew or a promise that they will be payed at sometime? in the future and put ashore ? This has happen many times over the last 20 years with out trade unions the seamen, have no rights or defence, against crooks Many have refused to leave the ship The sit in was the common way to get them to pay before the ship change hands or was charter by bogus flag companys. I remember many a crew begging for food reading stories in the newpaper when I was working ashore, this has happen to many crews in many ports.

Louis, not sure about the ships you mention, but I know from talks with many crew members on cruise ships they do very well and are very satifeid with pay and conditions.

happy daze john in oz
5th September 2012, 07:06 AM
I found this bit on the net yeaterday and found it interesting, not my comments but thought you may like to see how the media look at the rich here in Oz.


. Richpeople think selfishness is a virtue
Average people feel they need to save the world and put others beforethemselves which is keeping them poor. Rich people take the attitude that ifthey don’t help themselves first they can’t help anyone else.

2. Rich people have an action mentality
You wouldn’t see a rich person lining up to play the lottery (even before theywere rich). Average people are always waiting on someone else to help them getrich - the Lotto, Government, friend or spouse – but it only keeps them poor.Rich people take action and spend time solving problems.

3. Rich people favour specific knowledge over formal education
Average people believe the road to riches is through doing masters anddoctorates. Rich people are generally rich because they have made money sellinga specific knowledge they have acquired.

4. Rich people dream of the future
Rich people spend a lot of time looking into the future, setting goals andlooking forward to what lies ahead. Average people dwell on the past whichoften holds them back by making them unhappy or depressed.

5. Rich people think about money logically
Average and well-educated people can fall into the trap of thinking about moneyemotionally and just wanting to retire comfortably. Rich people maintain alogical relationship with money viewing it as a tool that represents optionsand opportunities.

6. Rich people follow their passion
Oprah Winfrey said it – you’ve got to follow your passion and do what you love.Rich people find a way of getting paid for doing something they love. Averagepeople earn money doing things they don’t love.

7. Rich people aim high
Average people set low expectations to avoid disappointment whereas rich peopleset huge expectations and follow their dreams.

8. Rich people believe you have to “be” someone
Average people on the other hand believe you have to “do” something to be richand focus on immediate results. Rich people continuously focus on betteringthemselves and learn from success and failures.

9. Rich people use other people’s money
Average people believe they need their own money to make money whereas richpeople have no problem using other people’s.

10. Rich people live below their means
It seems contradictory to the above statement but rich people adopt theattitude of getting rich so you can afford to live below your means. Averagepeople live beyond their means.

11. Rich people teach their children how to be rich
Average people teach their children how to survive whereas rich people teachtheir children from an early age about the world of haves and have nots.

12. Rich people don’t let money stress them out
Average people do. Rich people find peace of mind in wealth and are not afraidto admit that money can solve most problems – allowing them to make more money.Average people see money as a continuous battle and necessary evil they have toendure.

13. Rich people would rather be educated than entertained
Average people are the opposite. They read novels, tabloids and entertainmentrather than continuously educating themselves after school.

14. Rich people surround themselves with like-minded people
Average people think rich people are snobs and have a negative attitude towardsthe super rich. Rich people steer clear of the doom and gloom attitudes andpeople – adding fuel to the fire of the “snob” label.
Rich people constantly focus on the big picture – and how to earn the bigbucks.

15. Rich people focus on earning
Average people focus on saving and miss big opportunities by trying to livefrugally.

Keith Tindell
5th September 2012, 08:07 AM
Hi Shipmates,
With regard to the unions, its like everything in life, a sensible approach is needed, i can recall an era when unions were too strong, they said who could be employed etc, now the power is in the other direction, ie employers. We need to get back to reasonable employers, and reasonable unions. If the power swings too much one way its not good. I am fortunate to have a good pension, thanks to the union, guys doing my old job today will not get anywhere near my reward, because the employers hold the power. regards KT

Louis the Amigo
5th September 2012, 08:37 AM
Hi Shipmates. Hi Happy john in oz I thing that sound bite was copyed from an old victoria book with a modern update, I have met many very rich people in my life most of them did not work for they money and did not value itmuch , The ones who work hard over many years to earn it were not like number 15 but live like they would wake up next morning with nothing would not spent a penny on themself unless they had too number 13 is wrong another very rich person I known never read a book in his life 14 is wrong they dont have any friends or only in business, Rich people dont have familys or have major probelms with them too much time spent away or are divorce family life is very bad for them cost a great deal of money. Many mega rich after they have got fed up with all the wealth and the limelight like Bill Gates lock themself up and give away money Every person who has big money }not lottery winners} most are pennyless after a few years are not the same there is no one formular to become mega rich Oprah had an awful childhood, her brother died overdose, she was lucky to make money in T.V. but no one knows what she had to do to become famous? She may be Mega rich but at what cost? Back to stories in the paper About seamen begging for food and wages this was in many ports in Europe in the !970 to present day, The crew on some ferrys are employed by agencys on below min wage to work in the bars /kitchens e.t.c no right no unions allowed today passenger ship have for many years used non british workers no one would say a word against the shipping companys about terms or condition on ship .14 hours a day on less then min wage thats normal for them "stena " documentry on the T.V 2 weeks ago

Glenn Baker
5th September 2012, 09:25 AM
At last reports Gina Reinhardt had 27 Billion Dollars in her Bank account, also her daddy Lang has another part aboriginal Daughter residing in a Govt housing Commision house in Geraldton Western Australia, so as well as falling out with her direct daughters and son, Gina baby doesnt want to know about her half sister in Geraldton, it was even big news on 60 minutes a few weeks ago, so realy honestly truly wully fellas Gina is no better than any thugs that are around.
She even tried to own a newspaper all because they took a dislike to her. true dinks, she wouldnt mind seeing chimmny sweep days come back with wages to match and Oliver twist soup kitchens .
Gina Reinhardt would be the face of Ugly Australia. building workers are only a small minority of all Australian Workers, Mechanics , Labourers factory workers etc . Wages would be zilch anywhere . Gina needs to learn how the other half of the Population lives.

Louis the Amigo
5th September 2012, 09:58 AM
Hi Shipmates new story Child poverty in the uk read on the B.B.C Are Things are getting worst for the working family in the U.K.? The rich still dont pay enough tax ? The reward from "Stena C.E.O. to one of 14 hours below min wage crew man{ non british} was the company paid for his family, to come to paris to see him for a week ship in dry dock? Have not seen his family for over 6 months+ tell me real slavery and bad conditions dont exsit in the U.K. today Where are the trade unions ,when people need them? No funds and powerless !!!!

Captain Kong
5th September 2012, 10:53 AM
I like Trade Unions,
.

I do not like Trade Union Delegates and Bosses who are arrogant, ignorant, domineering bullies who make themselves Rich, They have BIG expence accounts, BIG Salaries only their members can dream of, Big Union member paid for Houses and Cars. The Best overseas travel in the Best Hotels and First Class air fares, all paid for by their Members.
.
No Union Delegate or Union Boss should have anymore than their Members in Salary and expences, NO House paid for, No expensive Hotels that their members cannot afford to stay at.
.
Brian .....who never ever got any help from any trade union when needed.after paying Union Subs for more than 50 years.

cappy
5th September 2012, 02:02 PM
exact kong no truer words regards cappy

Captain Kong
5th September 2012, 03:11 PM
Hi Shipmates new story Child poverty in the uk read on the B.B.C Are Things are getting worst for the working family in the U.K.? Louis.
.
I dont believe there is Child Poverty in the UK. No one today knows what poverty is.
.
I was brought up in the 1930s, there was no Benefits then, Not One Penny, Dad was out of work when the mills closed down, three kids, inc. me . and a wife. Rent and Rates to pay. The Man from the Parish would call and say sell that wireless, sell those chairs etc , when you have nothing left to sell then you got a few shillings .
If you needed a Doctor, you had to pay, no NHS.
There were three of us kids in one bed. no bathroom, outside midden, for the toilet.
We were poor, BUT, we didnt know we were poor, as we were all the same. so we had no one to compare to.
.
Today, there are Benefits for everything, once you are on that ladder it opens doors to untold wealth.
Rent and Rates paid for by suckers like me who saved my money and cannot get any because of a MN. Pension.
Childrens Allowance, around £17 per week per child.
Free Medicines, free Glasses, free dental.
If your wife or husband is in Gaol you can claim travelling expences.
Free everything the list is endless.
I was talking to a Social Worker, He said, if a child has to share a bedroom he is in Poverty, if he hasnt got a Ipod and his mates have then he is in Poverty. etc etc. That is the Big Problem with this country today, we are breeding a Nation of Bums.
.
My step Daughter is a Teaching Assistant, she says kids come to school with no breakfast.
A packet of 48 Weetabix costs £3, enough for 24 days, at 2 a day. or around £1 a week. they get £17 a week Allowance for each child. WHERE IS THE POVERTY.?
The parents are stood at the school gates smoking fags at £8 a packet, in the alehouse at night .
Poverty is Self Inflicted.
The Money should be stopped. Food coupons issued instead to the value of the benefit. maybe then, if the parent doesnt sell the coupons for ciggy money, the kids may get fed before they go to school.
I was fed in the 30s, Porridge every morning, did us good, still have it.
If a child cannot be fed by the parent then they should be charged with child neglect. There is absolutely no excuse.
I have to pay tax on my miserable pension to help support these Bums.
Brian.

Louis the Amigo
5th September 2012, 03:52 PM
Hi shipmates, Hi Captain Kong I agree with you times were very hard for us all in them days, many of us grew up with very little in the way of things many children only had hand me downs to wear, but as you said everyone was in the same boat in the bad hungry times 19 30 40 50s but did thing get better????I was working 1st job full time at age 14 on a ship, 6 boys to a cabin, mopping the saloon and working in a cupboard{shop} the wages were low The food was rubbish, and you had to pay for it but Ilived to tell the tale , But enough about my past, The trade unions have allmost gone they funds and power have been taken away by laws put into place by governments of the U.K,. But poverty is not the same as it was in our day? My mate Laurie 87yrs was in school in the 1930s his job as a prefect was to give out parrish boots to poor children whos parents could not afford them? He would agree with a lot of what you posted, But times have moved on for the better ??? Your step daughter has seen it first hand , so has my daughter she a teacher in a class of 30+ many who dont understand english and whos parents work for min wage if not on benifts who pay top rent to private land-lords ,so have very little money to pay all the bills and many live off food banks, and hand outs from charity so they dont have it easy? But today not many do unless you earn a very good wage?

Gulliver
5th September 2012, 04:37 PM
things are getting worst for the working family in the U.K.? [originally posted by Louis Amigo.]

I dont believe there is Child Poverty in the UK. No one today knows what poverty is......

The parents are stood at the school gates smoking fags at £8 a packet, in the alehouse at night .........
Poverty is Self Inflicted.



Absolutely 100% with you on all of that ,Brian.Plus they still buy nice clothes and go on holidays,even if it is ostensibly for the children. If they are claiming all the benefits for their children,and still can't afford to feed them,then that is indeed neglect,and quite possibly fraudulent and their spending of these benefits should be investigated.They are taking the piss.

Gulliver

Captain Kong
5th September 2012, 04:56 PM
Hi Louis, The Child allowance is there to feed children on, it is easy to give a child three good nourishing meals every day, only two in school term as they qualify for free school dinners.
A lot of these women who call themselves parents, have not got a clue about cooking a good nouirishing meal for children , that is vegetables, meat or fish and fruit. It is easy, and cheap to do, well within the Allowance, but a lot of them are too lazy and idle to bother and then blame the State, ie the Tax Payer,
They know how to smoke ciggies at our expence,
I get fed up with the whingers, who are always pleading poverty. but the fascillities are there but too idle to do anything. I never went hungry in the 30s or 40s, mother was a good manager and cook Hard working for her family not lazy like a lot of this new generation of lazy benefit bums.
If they cant feed them then prosecute them for Neglect. but the fines would be paid by the tax payer from the benefits.
Give them food coupons to feed their kids instead of cash, then there is no excuse.
Cheers
Brian.

Jim Brady
5th September 2012, 06:50 PM
The food banks in this country are on the increase many opening around the country every day and I may tell you that it is not only the unemployed or benefit scroungers that are going to these places for a free hamper but families where both the husband and wife are working!!!!!The cost of running a household with a couple of kids could be rising by as much as 30%,with food,gas,electricity and clothes etc but people are told that they cannot be given a rise or in some cases take a drop in wages.The last week in the month whilst waiting on their salary they are "skint" and cannot put a loaf on the table so are calling into the food banks.No it's not as bad as the soup kitchens but we have respectable people in full time employment begging for hand outs this cant be right but this is what it's coming to.I think many of you should reflect from decrying people who are in a far worse situation than you and think therefore but for the grace God go I and realise that they are all not scroungers but decent hard working people and why should they not have a fag!!!!Maybe they need one to get through the day.
Regards.
Jim.B.

Captain Kong
5th September 2012, 07:22 PM
Hi Jim,
What I am sayinmg is, people get £17+_ a week for each child, what do they do with the money? it does not cost that much a week to feed a child and send him to school. Two Weetabix a day cost £1 a week plus milk. in Term Time a free school dinner and instead of a take away a good mother can make a very nourishing meal quite cheaply.
If they are spending the Allowance for kids on ciggies then that is wrong. regardless of whether they need one. I have lived in more poverty than they have today but with mother`s hard work and good planning we had good nourishing meals. How much does a pan of porridge cost A bag of oats at Sainsburys is 89p, that would feed the kids breakfast all week, a lot of these young mothers are too lazy to make it.
I have never seen or heard of a food bank, there are always people who want something for nothing.
Cheers
Brian.

Jim Brady
5th September 2012, 08:05 PM
Brian, (Have I changed my sex)I understand exactly what you are saying I see the people that you are talking about on a regular basis in the pub and smoking cigarettes every day but I cannot stand all people who are out of work and on benefits being classed as scroungers.By the way what kind of a pair of shoes would you get today for £17 kids are growing all the time so shoes dont last long.Anyone that went away to sea went through periods of "feast or famine" I had a few periods of famine and I wont forget it, lucky enough in those days you could eventually dig yourself out of it because there was work now it is not so easy so for people our age it is easy to criticise the young of today who have no hope.
Regards.
Jim.B.
By the way if you have not heard of a food bank just google "food bank" incidently there was a documentry on it recently and it was also a subject for discussion on "Newsnight"

Gulliver
5th September 2012, 08:06 PM
I do feel that foodbanks could well be open to abuse.It is human nature for anyone to want something that is freely given,whether they are needing it or not.It would be a good idea if the benefits agency issued vouchers to only the desperately and genuinely needy.I must say some of the people frequenting them I saw on the TV news didn't exactly look needy.The kids looked pleasantly plump,perhaps the mother with nicotine-stained fingers needed extra food to supplement the expensive fish and chips and Macdonalds diet that has been 'squandered',instead of giving them cheaper and more nutritional alternatives.

Sorry,I do not see how working families should have to resort to food bank handouts.
It's pointless trying to tell the smokers to stop spending £50 per week because as we have seen in these forums before, stubbornly they just will not see your point,so how about cutting down on something else-there's always economies everyone can make,like cutting down on your motoring expenses(in some cases that means getting rid of one of the cars!)., stopping going out drinking every day,cutting down on giving in to kid's demands for the latest clothing and fads. etc,etc.

It's not rocket science,those on pensions do it every day,and certainly our parents did it.
If you can't or in some cases won't help yourself then I don't think you deserve free handouts. I have sympathy only for the needy,not those who have still,albeit a reduced , comparatively good wage coming in.

I would hate the concept of foodbanks to become a permanent fixture of society,just because people will not change their lifestyles or expectations.

Jim Brady
5th September 2012, 08:15 PM
Gulliver,how would you like to be 25 present day with two young children and just lost your job with no hope of further employment.Just think about that for a couple of minutes then come back on and tell me what you would do!!!!
Regards.
Jim.B.

Gulliver
5th September 2012, 08:37 PM
Gulliver,how would you like to be 25 present day with two young children and just lost your job with no hope of further employment.Just think about that for a couple of minutes then come back on and tell me what you would do!!!!
Regards.
Jim.B.


Jim,perhaps it's pointless me posting if you don't bother digesting the content,and just come out on the defensive.
I inferred that others apart from the genuinely needy may be abusing the foodbank system. Your hypothetical man with two kids who has lost his job is in need obviously.Like yourself,it upsets me that this is happening.His is a genuine case.
Once again,I say others more than the genuinely needy may be abusing the foodbanks.
Go and have your fag if you must ! Was it my mention of spending money on smokes that upset you and blinded you into misinterpreting my post,I wonder.
No such intention.

Regards
Gulliver

Jim Brady
5th September 2012, 08:51 PM
Gulliver,firstly I dont smoke.The people who go to the food banks have to be refered by a third party to go there.They will not be able to go there on a regular weelky basis and in fact the people running the food bank may contact various agencies such as Social Services and the children could well be placed on the "at risk register"
Regards.
Jim.B.

Captain Kong
5th September 2012, 09:17 PM
Sorry about the `Kim` Jim, the K is next to the J a finger typo. I was in a hurry to get to the alehouse to see an old seafaring mate.
Cheers
Brian.
. I do realise that some cases need extra help, But, there are a lot of useless women out there with no idea how to feed children a good nourishing meal every day. And it is affordable. They would rather have a take away instead of good shopping, Go to Asda after 5pm and food, Chickens , Fish etc is almost give away prices, much , much cheaper than a Take away, meal. But it is easier to order one, A lot of these women are Lazy, I have one two doors away just moved in a few months ago with five kids in a Rental house. paid for with the Council Tax I and others pay for. The Pizza man is always delivering, the kids do not know what a cabbage is, or Broccoli and so on. I and many other taxpayers are paying for all this. I cannot get a penny because I didnt waste my money , I paid for a small MN Pension and have to pay Income Tax on it. This woman drives a car, I am struggling to put petrol in mine.
After tax my pension is almost wiped out. I cannot claim one penny benefit, cos I have savings.
These people get a lot of Benefits, Rent and Council tax paid, Childrens allowance, various bills are paid for them because they have children, there is a lot of help out there for them but they do not help themselves, They expect the Tax Payer to pay them.
Cheers
Brian.

Glenn Baker
5th September 2012, 11:12 PM
I think a lot of people have completely forgotten what it is truly like to be forever going nowhere fast with low wages and the 10pound average wage that got you nowhere.
the same thing is happening again now except there are no jobs as well.

Yes this generation has made a lot of mistakes including the masses of Single mothers , but it doesnt alter the fact that Britain is in Recession many people have lost their jobs and even more have had the Banks pleasure on foreclosing on their main assett their house.

Many people try hard , many people apply for dozens of Jobs that are not there. just cast your minds back to when and where you sprung from and your circumstances.
Ask your selves why so many people migrated to Australia and New Zealand.

Secondly try going down to the dole office to get a Job. there is no Merchant Navy no selection of ships and worse still no memory of hard times, hard times and pain seem to vanish when those that speak are all right.

try telling a family paying off a house and lost their jobs that they are spoilt.

Tony Morcom
5th September 2012, 11:40 PM
It is very interesting to hear some members saying how others should live. Other threads on the site have very similar debates from the other side of the coin i.e. criticising the so called upper classes, M.Ps etc., etc, for saying how the rest of us should live. Without wishing to get into an argument and without trying to gain any sympathy at all, I would just like people to imagine for a few minutes just what it would mean to them to suddenly be faced with life on benefits. Well I'll tell you from my perspective. Up until 5 years ago I was earning anything up to £45k a year sometimes more as a sales manager, working 14 hours a day and enjoying life to the full. Then BANG: through no fault of my own my company went bankrupt leaving me without a job at 50. A month later my wife was struck down with her illness. All of a sudden my working life was over, still with no hope of return anytime soon. My existing financial commitments such as pensions, life insurance, h.p. on the car, savings for holidays, pet insurance, medical insurance etc all came to an end and in the majority of cases I lost all the benefits of them because I was having to default on the payments. My overdraft was taken away, along with my credit cards. A good income became a nightmare of debt. The only saving grace was the fact that luckily we were renting rather than paying a mortgage. However we were still forced to move at our own expense to a smaller house. Our life style changed beyond all recognition. Forget the actual fact of my wife's illness that we had to cope with as well ~ it is the principal that I am talking about.

Oh how easy it is for you non smokers to criticise that I still smoke, albeit rollups these days instead of the tailor mades I'd much prefer. £40 a month is all I spend on baccie, probably less than you spend on booze during the average week. Yes we have the occasional take away, not because we can afford it but because we deserve a treat now and again!! What right has anybody to tell me that I should feed my daughter porridge every day or weetabix?? And what about the cost of everything else, fruit, veg, gravy, beans, spagetti, oh the list is endless! What about school uniforms, school shoes at a tenner a pop for cheapies that will last a term, coats, normal clothes, school trips, sweets, T.V. costs etc.. All child benefit does is help to contribute to the normal household bills. 1 child you get £20.30, 2 kids =£16.85 each, 3 kids, £15.70, 4 kids £15.12 and so on. I will tell you now that if after paying all the necessary bills each month, food, gas, electric, water, rent short fall, petrol, insurance, clothes, cleaning materials, washing powder, bog rolls ~ the list goes on and on, we are lucky if we have much left over to actually try and LIVE LIFE! To sit hear listening to all the generalisations is frankly insulting and I am sure there are other members on here who are in a similar position and feel the same. We all know there is a percentage that flout the rules: THEY ARE NOT THE ONES who live next door and have a few pizzas!!!!:mad: They are the ones who do hard drugs, are alcoholics or are abusing the system in one of many other ways and using their illgotten gains for several holidays a year, have 2 or 3 cars and living the high life. Usually they have a job or jobs in addition top claiming benefits. Drive around any council estates and you will see the ones I mean.

Yes we are all painfully aware that there are benefit scroungers from abroad. We can't do anything about those: Just accept it. They are here to stay until we get a decent government in. There is a problem in this country and probably many others with benefit scroungers. Why? That's simple: its because we keep voting in the same clowns to run the country. Until everyone and I mean everyone convinces each person they know to vote NOTHING will ever change. So please stop banging on about porridge, weetabix and cheap chickens ~ you know absolutely nothing about what its like to survive on benefits with no hope of getting off them. Don't come here moaning about how you can't afford to put petrol in the car and in the same sentence talk about going to the pub: I dream of a night out in the pub!!! With the greatest of respect Brian you don't do so badly with your world cruises, weekends away and the like. No I am not deliberately having a go at you personally, I am having ago at the principle of attacking those on benefits, and your post was just the catalyst to make my blood boil. I am bloody furious. I wasn't even going to get involved in this one as a moderator but I have bitten my tongue for long enough. You are all intelligent adults; instead of moaning about it DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! Stop making out the millions of us sadly reliant on benefits are like something nasty stuck to the bottom of your shoes and stop presuming that you have any right whatsoever to tell us how we should try and survive in this sad society.

I freely apologise to anyone I have upset with this post but it needed to be said. Rant over and not to be continued:)

Les Woodard
5th September 2012, 11:56 PM
Same happening here in Oz. My take on it all goes back to when women demanded equal rights. Because of that we now have double the workforce with less than half the positions that used to be there. When we purchased our house the mortgage was only assessed on my flat wage and nothing else so that it could be proved that I could pay it. Now it is taken on both partneres wages including any overtime and other jobs which puts them into a position where if one losses a job they are in trouble. Women used to rule the street because they usually grouped together and watched out for each other so crime was not so rife as it is today where the streets are barren of people and especially kids. If a women got a job it was not uncommon for one of the local women to look after the kids for a few bob. Today they have to be put in kindergartens that cost about as much as they earn. Now they have maternity leave to go and have a kid as well as being given an allowance for having it. Will not be long before we will be expected to have the kids for them. I know this sounds like I am against feminism but I do believe that women have been conned by greed and manipullation and we are all suffering because of it. Reading Kong's account of poverty well most of us can relate similar stories so it is quite evident that we might not have had oppulence in them days but we had a solid civic stucture that worked.

Food handouts are a bloody waste of time it is education in being able to cook a meal that they need not a chit to MacDonalds. Does not take much to throw a few veggies in a pot for a feed does it. Hand outs no matter if in goods or food will not get them of their back sides and motivated. We see it here all the time where like the UK we have suburbs where no one works or wants to work and expect the rest to look after them. Going back to Unions. Yes they did become strong and might not have seemed like they where doing anything for you but now that they have lost a lot of that power look where the worker is today. We can not go back to the old days but can not see how we can keep up with todays greed by a select few manipulating the masses.

happy daze john in oz
6th September 2012, 03:06 AM
A few years ago a report was done into feeding habits of the population. It was discovered that the lower down the soci-economic scale the higher the reliance on ready made food. Those of a higher education standard were far more able to produce a meal from scratch. But much of the sad situations we see today are brought about by governments. Ours here in Oz recently made the decission that each school student should recieve $800 to assit with school costs. Of course had the gov half an ounce of sence they would have gieven the money directly to the schools, the result, a massive spike in sales of Tv etc. Come the new term those same parenst will be looking for money to pay school fees. There is a combination of stupidity on both parts.
As I see it we are all part socialist, part capitalist. It depends on which side of the fence you sit as to how much of either side shows.

Keith Tindell
6th September 2012, 07:40 AM
There is also a lack of education in preparation of food, a few years ago schools did away with wood work and metal work and also domestic science classes, these subjects are no longer in most schools. the classrooms were turned over to IT, so a lot of the youngsters today are brilliant with computers , but cannot cook. Food today is very cheap, and if you can cook there should be no reason to go short. Chicken is one of the cheapest meats you can buy, and all sorts of meals created from it. When i was a child we only saw chicken at xmas, now a lot of the younger generation will only eat the breast of the chicken, its a sad world KT

Jim Brady
6th September 2012, 08:01 AM
Brian,your post 60#.A woman has moved into your street with 5 kids,right away you have stereotyped her as being a benefit scrounger.How do you know her circumstances,have you seen her weekly income and where it is coming from? To presume anything in life is a very dangerous road to go down,always get the facts is what I was always taught be fore passing comment.I certainly dont know anybodys income or circumstance's in my road and in fact it's not my business.
Regards.
Jim.B.

Captain Kong
6th September 2012, 09:56 AM
Hi Tony,
I am sorry if I upset you, But I was going on about people on Benefits who abuse the system , and there are many many deserving people on benefits through no fault of their own.
What I started to say was, ...The subject was Child Poverty, ....someone said there was child poverty in this country, and I said with proper management there was no Child poverty. Many children go to school without a breakfast, this is a fact,
I mentioned the Weetabix and porridge to show that it is cheap to send a child to school with a decent breakfast, there is no excuse for that. Also there is nothing wrong with a good bowl of porridge for kids to go to school on, better than an empty bellly. It is nourishing and does not cost much, I still have porridge for breakfast, never had a cooked one for many years. It has done me no harm. SHE has Weetabix.
.
I was certainly Not getting at people who through no fault of their own have to be there. but the fact is there are a lot of lazy `mothers` out there who cannot be bothered to look after their kids properly, who cannot be bothered or have no idea how to cook a meal. It is so easy to phone for a take away meal. These are expensive, they are the ones with a ciggy who complain they cannot afford to feed their kids.
.
Also I do not really drink, I was at the Merchant Navy Day in the Eldonian Club, Liverpool on Sunday with my old seafaring mates, I only had one glass of beer all afternoon.
I go to see an old mate once a week, last night , two halfs of bitter, that is the most I ever drink. On the QE across the Pacific earlier this year my bar bill for three of us was NIL.
I do not waste my money, I save it and spend it wisely. As I have said before a cruise does not cost a lot if you know what you are doing and with good planning. and after 50 years of hard graft I think I deserve a little pleasure in my retirement.
.
I hope this explains what it is all about, Just lazy `mothers` who get the benefits and cannot feed their kids properly and expect the Tax payer to do it for them.
Cheers
Brian.

Roger Dyer
6th September 2012, 10:06 AM
Hi Les.....your #63 refers.

Your interesting theory regarding the relativity between equal rights for women and the reduction of employment opportunities in the workplace may have some merit, although I don't believe it was the sole cause. Certainly, the recognition of equality did bring women into the workplace in ever increasing numbers which may well have deprived a job opportunity for a man who had a family to feed.

Taking it a step further, there may have been other implications arising from the recognition of equal rights for women, particularly on the home front, an increase in neglected children, 'latch-key kids', separation and divorce, all arising from the extended absence of the mother from the family home or from the heightened sense of independence a private income gave her, who can say? But, who would deny women the right to equality?..not I.


As simplistic as this may sound, I believe the major root cause for the malaise now effecting the western world is the rapid advancement of
modern technology in the past decade or two, particularly in the world of
industry where there is now a greatly reduced need for labour. Machinery operated by one man can accomplish what, twenty years ago, it took five men to do. The IT world reigns supreme and unless one becomes skilled and educated, the opportunities for employment in tomorrow's world will become fewer. Those with employment will be highly paid, then there will be the masses living on the welfare hand-outs from incompetent and ineffectual governments in the thrall of multi-national conglomerates.........I tell you now, mate, we're all doomed.:D

'...........Roger


p.s. Now, if you're not suitably depressed after reading this, then you are obviously doing what I'm doing.....time for another Appleton's 8 year old
Reserve, hooroo:D

j.sabourn
6th September 2012, 10:12 AM
No he wasnt a dustman, but a good tradesman. His 3 bits of advce to me was 1. never look down on the working man 2. The working man could never afford a Conservative government. and 3. Money was meant to go around. ( I suppose he meant to keep the economy going). I did not agree with his second piece of advice as believe the name of the people in power means nothing. Cheers John Sabourn.

Captain Kong
6th September 2012, 10:16 AM
Brian,your post 60#.A woman has moved into your street with 5 kids,right away you have stereotyped her as being a benefit scrounger.How do you know her circumstances,have you seen her weekly income and where it is coming from? To presume anything in life is a very dangerous road to go down,always get the facts is what I was always taught be fore passing comment.I certainly dont know anybodys income or circumstance's in my road and in fact it's not my business.
Regards.
Jim.B.
.
.
Hi Jim.
. This woman is on benefits, she has five children from two different fathers, they dont pay for the kids, she told me so. One ran back to Nigeria and the other father has gone to the States, last heard of in New York but his where abouts are now unknown, none pay a penny towards their keep, no maintenance. it is done by the tax payer.
I help her sometimes with her garden, when the trees were overgrown over her drive way and they were scraping over her car , I cut them down for her and shifted them, She is good natured and interesting to talk to, but has no idea how to cook a meal for her kids, hence the Pizza man calling daily.
I helped her daughter with her homework, they were doing a lesson on WW2, I gave her my story , "A Boys View of The Second World War" which I have put on this site. Her daughter took it to school and it was well appreciated by the school and teachers.
I am not a Ballbag, I do help people who want to be helped but I do draw the line sometimes with the ones who are just too lazy and expect every thing for nothing.
Hope this explains this. I am not against people on Benefits, because a lot of people are there due to circumstances beyong their control, it is only the ones who abuse the system.
Cheers
Brian.

Gulliver
6th September 2012, 01:04 PM
Chicken is one of the cheapest meats you can buy, and all sorts of meals created from it. When i was a child we only saw chicken at xmas, now a lot of the younger generation will only eat the breast of the chicken, its a sad world KT

Correction Keith,the only part of the Chicken the kids eat these days is called the Nugget !:popcorn: :rollinglaugh:

Louis the Amigo
6th September 2012, 03:18 PM
Hi shipmate , Child poverty is back in the U.K{ sorry }but its not me talking but charitys ,with hands on knowlege of what is happening today !!! I know many of us grew up up with very little, and had a hard time but we were made of tough stuff back then and hardship was for many a way of life, we on this great forum are the last of our kind The make do and mend group ?or the one hand for the ship and one for yourself.

Glenn Baker
7th September 2012, 12:18 AM
In reply , to those that think that people on the Dole are Bludgers, Would you like to go back to the days of the long March, and also when there was no Govt money or Dole office.

Many people procrastinate about unemployment , Join the ranks and see what it is like , if you can create One million Jobs the problem would be solved, but in the main people who have lost their Jobs through Govt Cutbacks do not deserve to be branded in any way.

I can remember some bosses actually threatening a worker many years ago and said there are 10 people waiting to come in the door, this is when wages were a pittance.

The best thing that could happen is a big Import tax on foreign Items which would re-incourage manufacturers to start up again and employ people.

Many people who have become unemployed in recent times would be horrified at the attitude of those more fortunate.
Umemployment Benefits have another invisible reason for being in Place and that is to limit crime such as stealing, shoplifting etc, if there was no safety gap such as this you would be right back to the chimmny sweep days , do you want that? in true figure unemployment figures are only a fraction of the total population, and as many were former tax payers who lost their job they have a right to assistance. Even when you do your shopping you are paying tax, even when the unemployed do their shopping they are also paying V.A.T so the Govt get most of it back on a fortnightly basis. all the best Glenn

Les Woodard
7th September 2012, 12:54 AM
I can understand where Kong is coming from because yes we have welfare cheats here as well so you do not have the monopoly on them. Women get the single parents payments and the husband leaves and goes on the dole so that he is not up for maintenance payments. Guess what happens? He then moves back in with her but uses someone elses address so that they then get her payments and the dole for his self and we are supposed to feel sorry for them. If the authority's are informed about this they are not interested unless a big stink is done over it because it is to hard for them to get of their back sides and go and invistigate the matter. Yes the theory of welfare is so good and it works real well if used as it should be. In practice what has happened is that there are so many cheats in the system that it is at breaking point and when the authorities do finally do something it is the honest ones in the system that get the grief and the cheats know all the loop holes to escape detection. Maybe it is because no one wants to be instrumental in informing on someone that they think are cheating the system in case they end up targeting a fair dinkum case and end up with egg on their face. That is the major problem it is the one person who is in dire need of welfare that the mutiltude of cheats are hiding behind along with complancy of governements to take action. We blame them for no action and they blame us for not informing them and so the problem goes on.

I do not think my memory is that bad that I recall we used to pay the school about five bob a week in the fifty's for a three course meal at school at midday. Might have been two course now I think about it more. That was at a normal school not a private one. Was surprised Brian that the women you help can not even cook a decent meal now that is bloody sad and her own bloody fault as it is not rocket science to pour hot water over porridge flakes is it. Like yourself we are frugal in our life style from choice and habit. Tonight we have a banquet of heated up pie and steamed veg (peas, corn, carrot and mashed spud). Cost about six quid for two if that.

Glenn Baker
7th September 2012, 02:41 AM
As far as Fraud on Govt payments , in Australia you would be very hard pressed uncover much of it simply because the Govt has made the detailing so hard now that people would be unable to carry out fraud for longer that three weeks which is the time the Master computor in Canberra would uncover any such finds.

As far as Adresses and housing are concerned all the different Departments such as the Housing ministry , local councils on rates Electricity etc they are all working in with each other with the Commonwealth unemployment departments.
Even an address with more than one person under a different name are investigated by the Centrelink agencies.
If you at all think Fraud is being committed you can write to your Member of Parliament of your specific area and have it investigated properly.
It saves accusing people without 100% proof.

j.sabourn
7th September 2012, 03:29 AM
Even during the war years you had the element there from the highest to the lowest who took advantage of any situation to turn to their own gain. We used to call them spivs or black marketeers. These same people and their protogees have multiplied over the years and they consider it fair game to cheat what they say is government money. However it is not government money, it belongs to the people who were probably cheated in the first case by unfair tax systems. I know it is a sore point but I myself see what others call a police state, a terrible thing to live under, personally if I had the choice I would just as well live under such as see the violent crime which we see dailly on our streets nowadays. With a police state at least comes harsher penalties to clear the streets of the rabble, law abiding citiizens should have no fear of such. Its not so long back where looters were shot at the site, I dont think the western worlds sensibilities nowadays would accept this, and the useless idiots in a so called freely elected society would be thinking of their election chances if such happened. All in all I would say personally our Laws as such are too weak and ineffective. Bring back hard labour in the prisons as a sentence for starters, and I for one believe in capital punishment. Also a life sentence is just that for life, and not 15 or 20 years depending on some bleeding hearts feelings. Somewhere along the line the Law has to become an effective deterrent which at the moment it is not. Cheers John Sabourn.

happy daze john in oz
7th September 2012, 06:42 AM
Brian,your post 60#.A woman has moved into your street with 5 kids,right away you have stereotyped her as being a benefit scrounger.How do you know her circumstances,have you seen her weekly income and where it is coming from? To presume anything in life is a very dangerous road to go down,always get the facts is what I was always taught be fore passing comment.I certainly dont know anybodys income or circumstance's in my road and in fact it's not my business.
Regards.
Jim.B.

Jim, I cannot comment on the situation in UK, but here regularly on the current affair Tv programs they will run a segment about some lady with a sad story usualy with five or six kids BUT NO HUSBAND to be seen or heard of. We had a system here a couple of years ago where you could get a $6000 bonus for having a kid. There are a number who will have kids, often with more than one partner and live without him just to live on benifits, pays better than working for some.

Des Taff Jenkins
7th September 2012, 06:46 AM
Hi All.
There but for the grace of God go I. I've never been religious but the saying is a good one.
Just before I retired for the first time I knew a truck driver, about 45 he like me; had never in his life been unemployed, one day in a conversation he was slinging off about the dole bludgers, I agreed that some people just didn't want to work, but that that wasn't the majority, he said there's plenty of work out there, no need for anyone to be on the dole. I met this bloke in a RSL about twelve months later, very sad looking. He said, not long after I had left he had got sack as work was slow, no sweat he thought, soon get something, a month later still no work, main reason he was at 45 too old, then after three months he more or less gave up looking, after six months and struggling with a mortgage and watching the bills eat into his savings, he told me that he had contemplated suicide, it was no joke he said. It was the thought that people were looking at him and he though they were talking about him being a bludger, he said he'd had to adjust to the fact that his wife was working and he was at home.
If that had been today he could have got a job with Gina Rinheart she would have tossed him $2 a day just like an African.
Cheers Des

:confused:

happy daze john in oz
7th September 2012, 06:47 AM
As far as Fraud on Govt payments , in Australia you would be very hard pressed uncover much of it simply because the Govt has made the detailing so hard now that people would be unable to carry out fraud for longer that three weeks which is the time the Master computor in Canberra would uncover any such finds.

As far as Adresses and housing are concerned all the different Departments such as the Housing ministry , local councils on rates Electricity etc they are all working in with each other with the Commonwealth unemployment departments.
Even an address with more than one person under a different name are investigated by the Centrelink agencies.
If you at all think Fraud is being committed you can write to your Member of Parliament of your specific area and have it investigated properly.
It saves accusing people without 100% proof.

I can agree with you to a point but the number of staff at the Missinglink has been cut back so far that they are finding it hard to keep up. Yes the big brother computers in Canbera do monitor all citizens but there are still many getting away with it.

happy daze john in oz
7th September 2012, 06:56 AM
In reply , to those that think that people on the Dole are Bludgers, Would you like to go back to the days of the long March, and also when there was no Govt money or Dole office.

Many people procrastinate about unemployment , Join the ranks and see what it is like , if you can create One million Jobs the problem would be solved, but in the main people who have lost their Jobs through Govt Cutbacks do not deserve to be branded in any way.

Many people who have become unemployed in recent times would be horrified at the attitude of those more fortunate.
Umemployment Benefits have another invisible reason for being in Place and that is to limit crime such as stealing, shoplifting etc, if there was no safety gap such as this you would be right back to the chimmny sweep days , do you want that? in true figure unemployment figures are only a fraction of the total population, and as many were former tax payers who lost their job they have a right to assistance. Even when you do your shopping you are paying tax, even when the unemployed do their shopping they are also paying V.A.T so the Govt get most of it back on a fortnightly basis. all the best Glenn

One point about employment and the demand for jobs. A postion will only exist as long as there is a demand for the service or or goods in that area exits. Demand goes, so does the job. This is something many forget, gov in particulr when they say go and find a job, what job? But Roger has it right when he says the days of large number of employees is over, the modern factory is computerised with as little as 10% of waht was the work force.

Jim Brady
7th September 2012, 07:01 AM
John very harsh words there and to me a bit OTT. Take capital punishment for arguments sake,thats fine if we did'nt have bent coppers fitting people up,same people hung only to be found innocent when its to late.What would've happened to the "Birmingham Six" and many more had capital punishment still been in place.Also sounds like you would like us all to live in somewhere like the good old USSR where you could be sent to Siberia for being an accademic and speaking out.The fact that we all speak our minds on here and critisize the government or other establishments is enough proof that we would not want to live under a police state with no free speach.
Regards.
Jim.B.

Les Woodard
7th September 2012, 07:01 AM
How many bloody times have I heard that saying. If you are honest then there is no reason to oppose big brother as it will protect you. So good in thoery but in practice does not work when you consider that the biggest crocks are the ones that end up running it. Do you really and truly want the politicians to take over your total person. If one of them say's "Good Morning" I check that it is morning. Yes there are so many welfare cheats caught within a very short time here in Oz the only trouble is they are the ones that made honest mistake by ticking one of those many box's on a form. I cheat and so do many other pensioners cheat here in Oz because when our assests increase by a thou or so do we phone them up straight away and declare it. No bloody way and even centrelink says that it is not necessary but that is cheating and by the rules we should be punished. The ones that have it sussed out get away with it all the time.

What is needed is for us to start looking after our own and start learning to say "NO" to the rest without some bloody do gooder trying to make one feel guilty about doing it.

Bob Petty
7th September 2012, 07:47 AM
I spent the best part of my working life in the building industry in Sydney.
I recommend the DVD Rocking the Foundations. As for Grocon Constructions, I have a very reserved view of their fine company standing??
Having spent time negotiating with them as a site delegate and union organizer.

Captain Kong
7th September 2012, 08:16 AM
I think some think I am getting on about people in general who are on Benefits.

I am not. It can happen to anyone unexpectedly.
I was on about these "mothers " who send their kids to school on an empty belly without a breakfast, then say it is Child Poverty as Louis calls it.
They have enough money to feed their kids a good nourishing breakfast, That is why I mentioned Porridge, I went to Sansburys yesterday, Porridge 55p a bag, on the bag it says , High Fibre, NO Salt, and Lowers Cholestrol. Now that must be good for kids better than an empty belly. Some just give the kids a bag of crisps to eat on the way to school.
The "mothers "are just too idle to feed their kids.
I buy a bag of porridge every week , love it.
A lot of people make themselve unemployable, because they can make a living on Benefits, NOW do not jump on me for this, I do know many are there through no fault of their own, and are genuine and benefits are a way of survival. It is the cheats who get the good ones a bad name.
When Anne had a Flower shop, a lad came in, He looked like Syd Snott, A green Mohican hair cut, ring bolts and studs in his ears and mouth and covered in Tattoos with big bovver boots. This is a high class Florists .
Any jobs Mrs? Anne, No Sorry. Good he says just sign this, he hands over a piece of paper, it had the address of every shop on the road. saying , No,
He says I have to do this every four weeks to show them I am looking for work or they stop me benefit. just have one day at it then I am OK for the next few weeks. The man was totally unemployable. He then went next door to the Undertakers.
OK I will go now, but do not take offence, there are a lot of good people out there who need it.
Cheers
Brian.

cappy
7th September 2012, 08:29 AM
you got it right kong mothers who feed kids on takeaways and have bigger mobile phone bills than food bills
regards capy

Captain Kong
7th September 2012, 08:36 AM
Regarding "Child Poverty" ,a Social Worker told me, If a child does not have an Ipad or a mobile like all his mates , then that is poverty, If a Child does not have his own Bedroom and has to share with his brothers then that is poverty. We had three to a bed when I was a kid in the 30s, we used to argue who slept in the deep end or the shallow end when one wet the bed.
But we were happy,
The word Poverty is abused today. It does not mean what it used to mean.
It was on the BBC News the other day, 80% of school children have a Mobile Phione, my grandchildren do. the other 20% must be living in "Poverty".
Now I do not have a mobile phone, never ever had one, and do not want one. so I guess I must be in poverty cos my mate and my sons have one. It is a crazy world.
Cheers
Brian.

Jim Brady
7th September 2012, 09:05 AM
Lets look at this from a different angle.Just supposing that there were jobs a plenty and a man with a wife and a couple of kids went to work.Would you say that £7.19p an hour is a fair wage. His top line is £280 pw say deductions of £60gives him a net of £220.Rent £80,rates£20.Disposable income £120 not a lot of money for some one that has done a hard weeks work.He then has the utility bills TV licence etc before he puts a loaf on the table.So what is wrong here is it that benefits are to high or is it that the man should be paid a far better wage that would pay him far more than being on benefits,what is the answer?????The bottom line is that this man is better off unemployed living on benfits than going to work.By the way he would also have bus fares to pay which are not cheap and his carry out.
Regards.
Jim.B.

Glenn Baker
7th September 2012, 09:13 AM
Things can change very quickly. the Queensland Govt have just announced they will sack nearly Three thousand people in the Nursing industry. You can rely on the fact that any of those unfortunate people in their Forties will never work in the Nursing game again.
Every unfortunate thing has a story and soon these people will those who will be dismissed.

If the Queensland govt want to bid for the Olympic Games never forget that they didnt give a continental about their highly skilled Nursing Staff.
Im sure Centrelink which itself has been trimming the sails will not have jobs for them.

Thank goodness there is a unemployment payment for thses hard working hospital Nursing staff who will experience the wrath of the Queensland Govt who also doesnt want the Mines Tax fully paid into their Budget, this is only the beginning of yet another David verse Goliath battle like that white line called them and us in the 1950,s.

When you look at things in perspective it is no wonder that there is this stupid two classes of Society which should have been scrubbed out many years ago.

j.sabourn
7th September 2012, 09:29 AM
My Post earlier refers to the hardened criminals on our streets muggings, shootings and murder ad lib. if anyone thinks the taking of a life deserves 15 years of luxury living in a cell is a deterrent, they must have a different view on life than me. If they want a hangman for some of this crap I will do it free of charge. It was recently discussed about the Moors murderers. I think these 2 had no right to continue with their lives after such an act, in other parts of the world they would have got a more appropiate penalty. The individual small acts of theft with Social Services has always been there and always will. Although complete aliens to the system coming in and rorting the system leaves a sour taste in the mouth. Cheers John Sabourn

Captain Kong
7th September 2012, 10:07 AM
I also think there should be Capital Punishment, hanging, for Murder, if it is definately proven without any doubt that the person is guilty. such as the Moors killers.
I was involved in a double murder case in Liverpool, read the Cameo Conspiracy , by George Skelly, where an innocent man was hanged, George Kelly and a friend of mine, Charles Connolly was given ten years in Wakefield,
We campaigned and went to London to the Criminal cases Review Court, and they were found innocent due to Police corruption.
Unfortunately too late for them both.
But in certain cases such as Brady and Hindley they should have been hanged. they both lived a good life locked up, Hindley was getting her Jollies off with a Warder and many other inmates. is that a deterrent ?
Brady has always been in a Hospital never in prison, Ashworth, on Merseyside.
A mate of my son was a warder looking after Brady and he told me that he gets the best of everything, as he is a patient and not a convict. he even has Porno books and videos. he is well looked after and everything he ever wants is provided no questions asked. He knew the place where the lad was buried and his last act was to torture that poor mother by refusing to say where he is buried,
But we must have a deterrent, the murder rate has gone up dramatically since it was abolished.

Cheers
Brian .

cappy
7th September 2012, 10:07 AM
jim you forgot 40 quid family allowance

Captain Kong
7th September 2012, 10:16 AM
Regarding household Bills, Most of the Energy Companies are Foreign owned, by French and German companies.
EDF, EON and so on. same with some of the rail companies, owned by Germans. They bang up the prices to subsidise their Continental customers where the prices are cheaper.
Any public Company , Electric, Gas, Water, Transport, should all be Nationalised properly and the benefit of the profits passed on to the customer in cheaper services. None Profit making.
Cannot see this or a Labour government doing that.
Brian.

Jim Brady
7th September 2012, 11:02 AM
jim you forgot 40 quid family allowance

The man would'nt have much left out of his wages,and have you ever tried to rig a coupleof kids out four times a year,out of school clothes,shool uniform and shoes.He does'nt get 40 quid a week anyway but if he did the family allowance would just about cover it unless you expect them to walk around in rags or get dressed from the charity shops.
Regards.
Jim.B.

cappy
7th September 2012, 11:23 AM
sounds like your whinging a bit jim i defy anyone who tells me they are not better off than there parents were even tho things could always be better to many people taking out and people 3rd generation now not even trying for work i blame the unions
regards cappy

Jim Brady
7th September 2012, 11:37 AM
sounds like your whinging a bit jim i defy anyone who tells me they are not better off than there parents were even tho things could always be better to many people taking out and people 3rd generation now not even trying for work i blame the unions
regards cappy

NEVER been a whinger in my life.So would you like me to go back to the thirty's and be worse off than my parents.Sounds like you would have the kids back up chimney's this is the 21st century not Victorian times.
It amuses me how people make statements without having thought about what they are saying.If it had'nt been for the unions kids would still be up chimney's and working in the mills at age 12.Incidently are the kids who's parents are in reciept of family allowance not allowed birthday and Christmas presents ,where does that money come from!!!!!
Regards.
Jim.B.

cappy
7th September 2012, 12:09 PM
to be fair jim chimney brushes have been invented since then and iworked in a mill before i retired in bradford my son works inone he joined me at 15 years of age no unions its a good job regards cappy

Gulliver
7th September 2012, 01:25 PM
The man would'nt have much left out of his wages,and have you ever tried to rig a coupleof kids out four times a year,out of school clothes,shool uniform and shoes.He does'nt get 40 quid a week anyway but if he did the family allowance would just about cover it unless you expect them to walk around in rags or get dressed from the charity shops.
Regards.
Jim.B.

Jim,there is nothing wrong with charity shop clothing,in fact some of it is very good indeed.I both donate to,and purchase, some quality stuff at my local cancer hospices charity shops. It's more like an exchange in fact.
The problem again with some (NB) of the needy today would seem to be not so much a question of stigma or shame, but that the mothers and children only want new,new and new-and they're going to have it,even if they can't afford it,or get into debt having it...or then have to visit charity food ships to supplement their children's diets. ,but that is the way things are today.

Nothing to do with charity shops,but some of us were talking about smoking in this thread. I think there is no excuse for anybody ,whether on benefits or not,not stopping smoking ,and thereby instantly saving money . I smoked for 30 years and managed to stop(I had to) despite being under stress jobwise and family-wise..I've saved thousands of pounds,typically (£2,500 per year at today's prices),since I stopped a dozen years ago.

You could buy quite a few school uniforms ,meals and treats for the kids for that amount every year,but still I see them in the supermarket;mothers buying cartons of fags,and cans of lager, their trolleys overflowing with packets of crisps,biscuits ,cola and pizzas,some of their offspring outside stuffing their faces with MacDonalds(other brands are available) before throwing the wrappers on the ground. I know that their husband/partner/boyfriend(s) don't have jobs(it's a small town).They are hard people to love,let alone feel sorry for ,and they certainly give those genuinely in need of help a bad name.

But without risk of sounding like a politician,God forbid,I still say that this recession was going to happen anyway,and we're all paying for it personally after many years of borrowing, living the good life and wanting it now,without a thought of preparing for the outcome financially if things go tits-up like they have.
That can't be undone,but what can is the way we cope with it,learning now and in the future to economise,accept our financial situation,change our lifestyle and our expectations...

For many (I would say the majority in fact) that's never going to happen,and unless we do make changes,however small,then we're doomed to a life of discontent,but then they can (will!) always blame the politicians,Yes, blame them for quite a lot perhaps,but, how about,for reasons I have stated,apportion some of the blame on the society we have become,and shoulder just a bit of the responsibility ourselves.

Best Regards
Gulliver

cappy
7th September 2012, 01:46 PM
nail on the head regards cappy

Kenneth Kenny
7th September 2012, 06:49 PM
Sailed with some great crew members in the Merchant Navy that you are glad you met.John Griffen,Pat Carrol,Billy Sadler M.V.Tabor.Jack Seddon George Scott.Pizarro.Jimmy Wittaker Albert Wise.Ionion.Frank Morris Andulusian.Owen Divine George Taylor.Binfield.JohnJones.Maltasian.John Griffin.Nat Mathewes.Alf Lees.Devis.Patrick Hughes.Santander.lots more of great crew forgot there names.Ken.R634898

Louis the Amigo
7th September 2012, 06:50 PM
Hi Shipmates Hi Captain Kong, I Agree with your post on Hanging for murder if proven without doubt? But why have you left out the Same for treason I.E home growed terrorist and all other terrorist who kill innocent people and our troops abroad, should be hung in public before any major football match and watched on the news. Child poverty I took a walk to a local food bank today to see one in action, not far from me in a church hall, it was very busy all types of people going there to get free food, most came out with a plastic bag full some disable, black, eastern eupoean with push chairs and small children and a few locals old people. I watched from the other side of the road {bus stop} for a short while not a nice way to get food ??? Its open twice a week.

Jim Brady
7th September 2012, 07:18 PM
nail on the head regards cappy

I dont know where you are coming from,its seems to me that you have made the grade in the mills and now you are doing a downer on people less fortunate than yourself.My children and my grandchildren are not second hand and for that reason I would not let them wear second hand clothes possibly with some other kids name in their school uniform coat.I was in consumer credit for over thirty years,even in the mid sixties when all hands were working and still people took out credit to clothe their kids and giving them a good Christmas.I can recall women applying for credit,they had to fill out an application form,the question was husbands occupation they would say "he's a docker so I dont suppose that I wiil get it".Nobody can tell me about people's finances I was at it to long and I might add it was hard to get money off me if I thought it was not going to come back,I think I may have had the lowest bad debt rate in the country.
Regards.
Jim.B.

Glenn Baker
7th September 2012, 11:11 PM
Im certainly glad i made the decision to leave British Waters all those years ago because judging by some of the answers on here its certainly seems like it hasnt changed over there and those two classes of people still exist, having two classes of society and I might add both classes absolutely hated each other , this was the main reason behind Britains downfall in the manufacturing Industry, the Japanese and Germans realy got stuck into racing away with quality goods while the British Languished in the background too busy fighting each other .

Japanese and German wages were higher and yet they still accomplished superior manufacturing skills.
Mainly because they found away of getting on with each other and all working for the one Goal.

Landrover, and Motorbikes and shipbuilding were lost to both the Japanese and the Germans the very countrys that were defeated in War, meanwhile in the UK the Bosses and workers were too busy argueing with each other about their working conditions when both should have woken up and agreed with each other for the common good.

Ill never forget those pinstriped suited brief case carrying snobs that got on the trains at Southend and looked down their noses at people like me who just wore a pair of scrubbed Jeans and carried a suitcase.

Its the class difference that killed Britain and its happening again, huge money at the top of the pile and zilch down at the bottom and no jobs to offer.
you can moan about people not looking for work, well you tell them where the thousands of jobs are.

Try making people travel to different towns to look for jobs that are not there. just because the British Govt think thats the way to go.

It wasnt the single mothers who passed the laws bringing in their child pensions either it was your feerless leaders of past Govts both Labour and Conservative all done to capture votes
Bless you all my people, for you are the underlings of many past Govts and something very important they want you all to argue with each other because it justifies their stupid decisions to keep the two class system. it protects those men in the Pinstripe suits. all the best enjoy. Glenn honesty prevails

j.sabourn
7th September 2012, 11:53 PM
Agree with the post on the class system. Is still there in the UK. Regardless of calling people by their first name Tom Dick or Harry, this is not the end to the class system. Also there is a small pecentage of the community who think Manual Labour is a spaniard. The unions did a lot of good in the past, the principal of same is very good, as is every mans right to with hold his labour, this is the only bargaining point he has. We were lucky when there was plenty of work, my attitude was then was that I sacked the company and went elsewhere for employment. Unfortuanetly the work is not there to be able to do this anymore in the uk at any rate. However to my way of thinking there is work in the likes of Australia and as said in previous post the people responsible must get together and consider what is just and fair and will keep jobs going without being priced out of existance and finishing up with nothing. Australia has a tendency to follow the uk in many aspects of life, in this case they should forget the uk with all its past industrial strife. Is a young country and has the opportunity to be bound by no ones rules and regulations. Regards John Sabourn.

Les Woodard
8th September 2012, 01:11 AM
Not in favour of hanging until we get judges that would impose it. Lets face it they are not keen on locking the barstewards up let alone hanging them because of the outcry from the do gooders. So my way of looking at it is if they bought back hanging then Judges would be to **** scared to inforce it and let the buggers of with a lighter sentence than they already get.

As for going on TV and crying poor for more assistance which happens a lot on our crap TV shows I often notice the hands of the women that are crying their eyes out with manicured finger nails that have cost at least a few days food to get done. Just a little thing that seems out of place not to mention having the latest phone surgically implanted in their hand. It is the ones that are struggling that get overlooked. As for second hand clothes well if you can afford to not use those places then you sure as hell are not bloody struggling because I do not know about over there but here they are frequented by rich and poor alike. Who amongst us can say that they grew up without wearing hand me downs or seconds. Sounds more like some are scrapping the bottom of the barrel trying to prove a point. Wages have always be notoriously low for the common worker and was lucky to make ends meet each week because it was the overtime and a bit extra from somewhere else that helped us out hence working instead of collecting the dole did not only boost ones self esteem but also got one on the ladder to promotion to a higher position with a little more pay.

j.sabourn
8th September 2012, 02:28 AM
Contrary to what a lot of seamen used to believe that the mate or the second was a b....d for not giving out overtime, this was not usually their fault. I sailed a lot of years off and on as Mate. Almost every ship I was on you were told from the office to only use essential overtime as such. However one company had the forward looking intelligence to try and put the management of such in the hands of the ship and we had a ship management consisting of the heads of departments. Each Dept. had a sum to be used re. overtime. I think if I remember correctly mine for the deck was about 4000 pounds per month. I discussed this with the Bosun so as to spread this sum out evenly whether the overtime was worked or not. It was a good job I checked the overtime book after the first week, he had himself down for 12 hours a day and everyone else for 1 hour. I took the overtime book off him and kept it as fair as I could. This was only one instant on other ships it was not abused by any one individual and did work better than most. My rememberence of ships crews is that the overtime was more than likely the main source of discontent, especially to married men.
The wages were that low that many relied on overtime and manys the time I can relate to someone telling me they were told all sorts in the Shipping Office before signing on. Overtime does not exist anymore to my knowledge but the shipping I was on it was a mininum 12 hours a day. In my case 18 hours before a break if necessary. Some people call this progress, but I have my doubts. Regards John Sabourn

happy daze john in oz
8th September 2012, 05:33 AM
If that had been today he could have got a job with Gina Rinheart she would have tossed him $2 a day just like an African.
Cheers Des

:confused:[/QUOTE]

And there is the point Des, her commenst were about the situation in Africa where working for $2 a day is common in mnay countries. The media as usual got hold of it, twisted the meaning saying she wanted those wages here in Oz. read the full speech and you will see a lot of what she says makes good sence.

happy daze john in oz
8th September 2012, 05:56 AM
#102 Glen Landrover is now owned by the indian company Tata and they have invested millions into it. 1100 new staff have been employed to keep up with global demand for the vehicles.
It was the Dickens Character Mr. Micawber who said, 'the man who earns ten shillings a year and spends nine shillings and sixpence is a wise man. The man who rearns ten shillings and spends ten shillings and sixpence is a fool'.
This is very true of society today, many spend way beyond their means often just to keep up with the Jones, or in some cases out of sheer bloody minded stupidity. When mobile phone bills are higher than food bills there is something very wrong with society. It began in the mid 60's when comercilisation becam the buzz word, TV was suddenly full of adverts for goods many of us had not even considered, then credit cards became the order of the day, spend now and maybe if you can afford it pay later.
As for unemployment, we have about 5.1% here in Oz, that is considered to be about full employment. There will always be about 5% who are unemployable for a variety of reasons, maybe health or as in the case mentioned by Captain Kong th elad with the green hair. Some people would cause more problems than they would solve if employed.

Keith Tindell
8th September 2012, 07:35 AM
My recent experience of trying to get a job done here convinces me that this country needs a size 9 boot , six laceholes up its ar**e. There is work out there, but a distinct lack of interest. I have a large oak tree in my garden which requires a tree surgeon to work on it, the first local guy came out to give a quote, told me what he would do to the tree, and would get back to me with a quote, 2 weeks, nothing heard, phoned and left a message, nothing heard. No 2 came out, said he would email a quote, 3 weeks, nothing heard. No3 came out, gave a written quote, will phone in a few days, 2 weeks nothing heard. So now come to the conclusion that i need a Polish tree surgeon, regards KT

Glenn Baker
8th September 2012, 08:00 AM
Absolutely agree with you about the unemployment figures out here in Australia, the 5.1 is avery good figure and as any govt will say there will always be a similar figure due to people being of Disibilty or mentally unable to hold a job.

gina Reinhardt is still the face of ugly Australia to me, she only bought shares in a Newspaper because she didnt like what they said about her, i didnt notice her making any effort to save Darrel lea confectionary when that was going bad through no fault of the workers.
Gina baby has mor money in her lucky little Bank account than the whole of the Queensland Govt and she certainly never opened her wallet up when medical and Hospital systems were struggling in Queensland yet she has a lot to say about how hard workers should work, maybe old Langs Syne her rich daddy taught her to be a little piggy macho give them cakes attitude because she is certainly not liked in most circles of Society.

if gina baby thinks even Africans should mine for $2 a day then that says it all.

Maybe she should advertise for Mcdonalds Hamburgers as im sure her image is more in keeping with her general attitude to the rest of Society, seeing she even wants to bring in Foreign workers to all of her mines, because they are cheaper to employ.
So not withstanding her country of Origin, i still find her revolting in her shocking spoilt way of existance.
Her other mining Cronies are too of the same ilk seeing most of their wealth is accruid from oversea,s money and and of which she paid less tax before than what the people paid. check it out if you like , they realy pillage the land make their money and stuff the people. all the best Glenn

Jim Brady
8th September 2012, 08:23 AM
It has been mentioned here that the unempoyment rate in 0z is 5% oh you lucky people.Here are some figures which may surprise you and you will understand why people are on benefits and not in employment,
Percentage of jobless
Glasgow City.28.7%
Sunderland.28.2%
South Teeside29.1%
Liverpool.31.6%
Southern England highest 12.1% Berkshire.

These figures are not because people dont want to work but because the jobs aint there.
Regards.
Jim.B.

j.sabourn
8th September 2012, 08:43 AM
Those are shocking figures Jim. Where do all the Non British residents or immigrant legal and otherwise fit into this equation. Those figures must come from a government department the Labour Exchange as I used to know it. They have to be a figure of ethnic and non ethnic British citizens and otherwise. Any government that knows it is paying out money to non citizens does not justify its existance as a government. The rot is certainly there. Any government with those sort of figures should be doing something to alleviate the financial burden or starting to pack its bags. The Raving Looney Party would have been more competent. Cheers John Sabourn.

cappy
8th September 2012, 08:48 AM
jim i fnd you hard to understand firstly you said we dont want to go back to working in the mills
i said but ive retired from the mill and my son now works there
you now say ive done well in the mill and amlooking down on you
well sorry i did allwright if id known it would have upset you i wouldnt have workedup to15 hours aday 6 or 7 days a week and bought the mill eventually and given up to 50 people jobs iwas and always will be aworking man
ps
s no union my people didnt want it they had seen wot it did to the textile trade perhapssome of the unions with t
here huge funds could create some jobs instead of living of the funds of poor buggers long dead thatll be the day
iwish you and your family all the best in the future and hope good times are coming
best wishes cappy

Jim Brady
8th September 2012, 09:13 AM
Cappy,I am retired and far from being on the breadline.It is the young people that I am concerned about like my grandson,he completed 2 years college,bench work,classroom and out on site,got part one City and Guilds.He now needs and employer to take him on for 12months to complete his apprenticeship,whats his chances ZERO.This is the building game he wanted to become a joiner.He would not go anywhere near the job centre and draw benefits,he was of the opinion that he would find an employer so his income for a long time was zilch living off his mum and dad and a few bob off my wife and I.It came to it where his dad told him he would eventually have to claim benefits which he has been for the past couple of weeks and believe me he hates going anywhere near the job centre,I have to laugh you have to write it down what vacancies that you have pursued since you last signed on,the question is WHAT have they done to find you a job thats what they are paid for!!!!!
Regards.
Jim.B.

j.sabourn
8th September 2012, 09:51 AM
Jim if your Grandson has the wanderlust like you probably had at one time, he could do a lot worse than emigrate to Australia. I built the present house I am in for retirement 12 years ago. At that time most of the brickies were over in Sydney preparing for the Olympic games on real big money. Fortuanetly I had 2 very good bricklayers, and at that time 12 years ago they were on 2 dollars a brick laid. I know a good Brickie on a straight course 500 bricks a day is not out of the question. Ambrose in the 50"s I believe held the record but forget what it was. The house next door to me was built by African bricklayers who were I think brought in special under some government scheme. It was pulled down 3 times as was not upto standard in other words the walls were cockeyed and not square, I hate to think what some of their buildings are like if that is the quality of that particular trade. Trades people are more in demand here than any fancy piece of paper from some so called places of higher learning. I think in W.A. the pecentage of non workers is below 5 percent. Some of these are quite happy with their situation of not working the same as other countries in the " Look after me countrys". Dont listen to this Bulls... That they put out on the BBC and other Documentarys, there are always people who emigrate and find it not like what they expected. And go back they are not the survivors of this world and are not satisfied anywhere. If as said your grandson really wants a better life, he should start thinking of alternatives. Cheers John Sabourn

cappy
8th September 2012, 10:00 AM
jim i understand teh situation u are in as agrandparent it is just another of the bricks tht lifethrows at us i only hope things get better
i amsure it will but dont know when that will be
in life it appears there is always something to worry about at least the boy has grandparents who care atrue bonus
my granny took me in in the 50s when things were hard who knows what the future holds but you have my best wishes regards cappy

Jim Brady
8th September 2012, 10:16 AM
John,until he gets that final year of an apprentice he is not a qualified joiner so there lies the problem.Change of direction,yes thought of that, the problem being a kid is lucky if can get a job shelf stacking in the supermarket.He applied for a job in a solicitors office,filing etc junior office worker.It came back a person with a degree would be given preference.So somebody goes to UNI obtains a degree and has to take a job as office junior,maybe promotion !!!!!
Regards.
Jim.B.

Louis the Amigo
8th September 2012, 10:21 AM
Hi Shipmates, Hi J sabourn, A old house down the road bought by a buy to let land-lord , an Asian gentleman, had a team of Eastern Euorpeans so called builders doing the work a complete rebuild and a new roof, Dont know how much he was paying? But they live they as well, this was winter time . Well you think African builders are Bad ? The house fell down in a high wind and the new roof caved in, the fire brigade were called out to shore up the front, to stop it falling into the road .The eastern euopeans were no where to be found!!! The buy to let landlord was left with the bill, and had to go to court, {Big fine } he ended up paying for a proper builder to do the work, he then sold the property to pay for it all .

j.sabourn
8th September 2012, 10:35 AM
Jim if he came out here he would have to get Australian Qualifications in any case. This would probably be done by a short course in the trade he is at at a local College to make him aware of Australian standards. I know someone who was a plumber in UK, out here he cannot practice it until he has done I think a 3 week course. Through pig headedness he refuses to do this and now works as an orderly in a hospital on a much lower wage and unsocial hours.This is his problem, you live by the countrys laws, I had to get Australian certification which was no big deal. I wish I had my life again as would have escaped the UK when I saw it going the way it was earlier. I was 54 when I came out here and could have been working still, but decided 65 was the retiring age which I had been brought up with.
I have never regretted the move, have been back to the uk whenever felt the urge, but both the wife and myself feel more comfortable in Australian surroundings. Everyone to his own, we only have one go at it. Cheers John Sabourn

Rodney Mills
8th September 2012, 09:18 PM
In 1958 I emigrated to Canada, Toronto. I could not get a job in cooking for love or money, even though, at visa time, told by Canada House that work was plentiful in Canada. After a couple of temporary jobs in catering and running precariously close to our last dollars, I was told about a job prospect packing radiators. I could not waste the twenty-five cents on a streetcar, so I walked...about six miles in a bloody blizzard to be told I couldn't have the job because I didn't go to UNIVERSITY. I asked what was the reverlance of a university degree to packing radiators and was told "Why not, there's a recession on son, why shouldn't I hire the best I can?" I walked back to our furnished flat to spend the twenty-five cents the next day on The Toronto Globe and Mail newspaper and the skimpy want adds. I have been successful beyond my wildest dreams, but I'm bassically a (hate the term, because business men work too) working man at heart.

Cheers Rodney

Les Woodard
8th September 2012, 11:27 PM
There might only be 5% unemployment here but remember that they classify anyone working a few hours a week as employed. Another political rearranging of figures. Be aware that it will also depend on where you intend to settle as to opportunity's opening for you. In construction industries a lot of work is on a casual basis as well. Having said this I still think that prospects are a lot better out here than in the UK. As for apprentices well my advice is to get in touch with Aussie house and get the facts from them as you might be pleasently surprised as to options open to a young person. I personally would not do anything without finding out all the facts from the people who will ultimatly allow it all to happen. Be aware also that there are other places than here with opportunities galore. There is also similar people out here as in the UK that are earning a living while picking up the dole or other payments. I wonder how many of those unemployed in the UK are actually legal or real people. Like others I am glad that I finished up here as I could see the future all mapped out for me if I had stayed in the UK and did not like what I saw. This has no reflection upon my family because I could not have wished for a better start in life than I got from them.

Glenn Baker
9th September 2012, 12:30 AM
Absolutely agree with you about the dismal future that existed in the UK in the 60,s and 70,s, My accommadation in those times was the Flying Angel , in betwwen ships that i sailed on, I knew as a person such as I who was classified as an Orphan that my chances of ever owning a small house and holding down a Job ashore was Zilch.

My pay off off various ships only just kept me in food and accommadation until i shipped out again (Broke)
The Best thing i ever did was leave the Shores of Britain, because in those times many things happened in England such as Thatchers sell out, of all Industry, where as in Australia and New Zealand there were jobs and the oppotunities to better oneself.Ill never forget the fact that it truly depended on your circumstances to whom your parents were as to what your future would be.
Out here in Australia you could still complete a good school education and go to University and even finish up as a Prime minister, all these things were impossible in the UK in the 60,s and 70,s

People ought to be absolutely grateful there is a Social Welfare system of some sort in the UK because the crime rate would spiral other wise.

As far as all the Single mother pensions are concerned, society has firmly let themselves down by people no longer getting married and people no longer taking responsibility for their actions.
By people not being interested at Voting time they virtually give the standing Govt Carte Blance in doing what ever they like.

to me as a Person Services to the Population are much more important then Olympics things like Health services unemployment benefits and a standard of decency via Govt Pensions are the least any Govt should provide.

Men joined the Army or the Merchant Navy in the 1930,s just to get three meals a day i dont want to see that ever happen again.

Plus how they treated British War Orphans after the 2nd World War is scandalous and still stands out in my mind vividly, especially when one has to fend for oneself in every way.

I believe there are still streets the same as Coronation street in the UK and thousands of unfortunate English People out of work through no fault of their own.

Its about time every one voted there and got rid of all your freeloaders who look down on those less fortunate, and get Industry moving again with higher taxes on Imported goods, and got purposefull by training young people in the trades instead of leaving them to their own devices, and with no future.
Thats why I came here, because there were fair wages fair oppottunities, and fair Govts who are forced every four years to give the people a fair go.

Finally we must be doing something right as we didnt go into recession when the rest of the World did, instead we spent the bank on keeping people employed, and it worked.

Let us hope that we remain prosperous here regardless of peoples views, If China Implodes then we have problems but in the meantime cherish the prosperity, make the rich pay reasonable taxes. We definitely dont want those poverty days of Britain and their attitude towards the poor over here. all the best Glenn who learnt very quickly in poverty.

j.sabourn
9th September 2012, 01:19 AM
Rodney, as your post says it is not always easy to make a large move as emigrating. Its not too bad for us as ex seafarers, personally I could live and probably survive anywhere in the world, as would be willing to accept any job, I dont know about the present day youth though, as some of what I see expect to start at the top or not at all. I heard one youngster here in WA say to my mate who runs a bike shop that he would come in the following week and pay for something that he wanted when he got his pay from Centrelink (Dole Office) he really thought of it as his wages. This is the mentality of some of our youngsters of today and unfortuanetly there is going to be a generation thinking like that. Probably the same as yourself we arrived here with very little money but luckily I had family out here. It took my last few dollars 800 I believe to join the Union. However as I have said the conditions to what I had been used to were excellent and worth every dollar. There were no pubs like Britain which puts a lot of emigrants off as they cant think past what they have been used to, they compare everything in pounds shillings and pence, these are things you forget, and try and live as the country lives.My biggest problem was worrying about the wife, however she took to it like a duck to water, and like myself would never consider returning back to the UK permanetly. Cheers John Sabourn

Keith at Tregenna
9th September 2012, 03:26 AM
Carry On; Working Hardly:

Great script for a seventies style Brit movie ?

The jobless UK citizen and the cheap labour seemingly poles apart ?

K.

happy daze john in oz
9th September 2012, 06:00 AM
My recent experience of trying to get a job done here convinces me that this country needs a size 9 boot , six laceholes up its ar**e. There is work out there, but a distinct lack of interest. I have a large oak tree in my garden which requires a tree surgeon to work on it, the first local guy came out to give a quote, told me what he would do to the tree, and would get back to me with a quote, 2 weeks, nothing heard, phoned and left a message, nothing heard. No 2 came out, said he would email a quote, 3 weeks, nothing heard. No3 came out, gave a written quote, will phone in a few days, 2 weeks nothing heard. So now come to the conclusion that i need a Polish tree surgeon, regards KT

So you want a Polish tre surgeon to polish off your tree?

happy daze john in oz
9th September 2012, 06:13 AM
Glen #109, I do not think the $2 an hour will ever happen here. But the point about wages is all to do with the way teh country operates. In many countries including many African states $2 a day is alot of money and peole survive on it. I agree they may not live as we in the west do but survive they do. I believe a basic wage level has been reached in UK and is about the eqivalent of $10 AUD per hour whislt here in Oz the minimum wage is now $15.60 per hour. Does that mean we are over paid or UK underpaid? No, it should, but does not always, reflect the basic cost of living, just as the $2 per day will in some countries. I am not saying this is all correct and right, but it is a fact that we cannot deny.

j.sabourn
9th September 2012, 08:18 AM
They used to call it the Brain Drain in UK according to our great British Press. All the fancy bits of paper did not necessarily constitute a brain to me, the actual person who produced something was and is the brains of a country, not a person waving a piece of paper that anyone with average intelligence and the means to stay and sit in a classroom for a few years could obtain. All the great skills that the British work force had years ago has been slowly eroded away with this so called panic to obtain these in lots of cases useless bits of paper. Most people with a degree in one subject, finish up working in another totally different industry, so whats the point, is it just going backwards to the old class system under a different guise. They would do more good if school students were taught the basic skills of the three R'S before going on to a so called higher education. I suppose it keeps them occupied, as they are certainly not productive to the country at the time of their obtaining credits in a more than probable useless degree. Regards John Sabourn

Jim Brady
9th September 2012, 09:10 AM
John there wont be as many going to uni now on some of the stupid things that they went to study,the application figures are down now that it is £9.000PA fees.
Regards.
Jim.B.

j.sabourn
9th September 2012, 09:47 AM
Jim, If I was an employer I would far rather employ someone with a Trade Certificate than a more than useless Degree which proves only that the holder attended a University for a number of years, by what I can gather certain parts of same degree would be awarded for good attendance, as certain aspects of actual physical examination like putting pen to paper are considered too traumatic for the poor dears. Most people could sit down and write a Thesis especially in the confines of their own homes. Unless a medical Degree with hands on training and a few other similar type Degrees, a lot of them are to my mind useless. Others with degrees might think otherwise, my own family have degrees these are however in teaching and are necessary to get a position in such profession., also Medical Doctors in family which have to have for professional purposes. As someone wrote about going for a job stacking shelves, and the employer wanting someone with a degree, that speaks millions. This must be some form of snobbery and doesnt say much for the employer. Regards John Sabourn

Louis the Amigo
9th September 2012, 10:39 AM
Hi Shipmates, Work in the U.K today I have 3 growed up children, who all done well in school, 2 were graduates from university with degrees ,with hons but they could not get a start in they field, my daughter send off over 500 hunderd letters with copy of C.V not one reply????? So when to new zealand for job teaching for 4 years, My eldest son worked for himself , in computors making and fixing them? that was his side-line {hobby} had loads of work/money for a few years till is stopped cheaper to buy new now, so had to work for someone on wages in a job he hates, They degrees were a waste of my money, then and today no jobs for them !!! My other son youngest no degrees like my self, has never claimed a penny, and has work in many good paying jobs/ and a few not so good since he left school, he can turn his hand to any job allmost , not afraid to do any work as long as they pay him? Bought a house a few years back and sold it at a profit, His brother and sister were still in Universiy studying ? But If the U.K. starts to employ its own people for the good jobs? will it help the people who have degrees? What do you think?

Rodney Mills
9th September 2012, 08:02 PM
There have been quite a few posts urging heavy taxation on imported consumer goods, manufactured overseas and exported to the U.K., as a means to generate more jobs for British workers. Do not forget that the U.K. exports many British items ( grown or manufactured) that employ Brits. The unwritten law of quid pro quo states, you tax my exports; I will tax imports from you. So where is the gain? Assuming Imports are equal to exports it's a push at best. Should exports (from the U.K.) be greater than imports, expect British employment lay-offs. And visa versa is not the answer either, not in the universal free market of today.

Cheers, Rodney

Jim Brady
9th September 2012, 08:07 PM
As it was before these high fees came in kids were going to uni for a bit of a jolly I think,some of the things that they were taking was ridiculous and believe it or not uni's were teaching these stupid courses it was just unbelievable just what you could take.Maybe African Face Mask's but most common Media Studies whats that all about.Another good one was Sociology,I was in a pub in Liverpool near the uni all the students used to drink there,pubs by uni's never have toilet rolls because the student nick them to take back to their flats.So they had the loo paper that came out one piece at a time (the shiny stuff) some wag had written above the toilet roll dispenser Degree's in Sociology please take one,thats what they are worth!!!!!
Regards
Jim.B.

Rodney Mills
9th September 2012, 08:30 PM
My friends ex-wife's doctoral thesis was "Left-handed calligraphers from Herot", which ment the right-handers had already been written about.

Cheers, Rodney

Les Woodard
9th September 2012, 10:49 PM
Rodney they did that here in Oz years ago saying that it was going to be a level playing field concening tariffs. Guess who was the only team to turn up for the game.

Here we go? Years ago.

Could start a job and work your way to become manager of the place

Could join the union and move up to become one of the leaders of that union

Could become a memeber of a political party and work your way up to become at least a minister if not prime minister.

All of the above and more have ceased because having someone with a degree would mean that they knew more than the common bloke and we would be better of.

Today

Most places have shut down because of mismanagment and corruption

Union's have gone to the pack because leaders are more concerned about revenue and furthering their own carrer prospects than looking after members.

Become a member of a political party and the faceless men of that party make sure your voice is not heard if it does not agree with policy.

Anyone notice a common thread running through all of this. My veiw has always been that the more educated that you become the narrow one's overall outlook also becomes. Where the average person who has to have many skills to survive will have a broader outlook on life hence have a wider vision of life than the professional. That is why we are in so much **** worldwide. Like the old indian treaty of years ago. When there are no more indians around. Who needs chiefs.

happy daze john in oz
10th September 2012, 05:49 AM
Recall my days at the UNI as an admin officer. Studenst taking all manner of degrees that in the end were hardly worth the paper written on. Apply for a position and present your degrees, told very good what experienece do you have? Get the experience then you eill get the position, but if you cannot get the position you cannot get the experience. Wwe have taxi drivers here in Melbourne with doctorates in such obscure subjects that no one wants them. A piece of paper might lok geat at an interview but it does not mean you can do the job.
Incedently saw a bit in UK Mail, during the Jubille some apprentices were used to assist with the set up of much of the inrastuctue and were paid just 2.80 per hour!

Bob Petty
15th September 2012, 09:22 AM
Spent all my working life in the building industry,from 1970 on to my retirement.
Tin shed to change in, along with the jackhammers, crowbars, bags of cement and the like, a cold water tap in the corner of the site to wash up at the end of the day.
No paid public holidays, compo that ran out after a few weeks,(that was if the company had paid it)
Daily hire, no super, as for safety, forget that, death on a job in Sydney weekly, shall I go on.
The employer wants to go back to the good old days (good for him)
The working man has the right to collective bargaining under the United Nations human rights conventions. May I recommend some reading material, Bertolt Brecht, when you have finished , I can recommend any number of books, that may be of use to you.

Les Woodard
15th September 2012, 06:25 PM
Can recall those days as well as I was into steel erection. No ladders or safety harness. Running purlins out at the end of the job. Nothing like being up in the air standing on a podger waiting for a beam to swing into place to pin bolt it was there. Safety gear? What safety gear. Sandshoes, shorts, shirt and a bloody big belt with all sorts of gear attached to it plus a bolt bag. Bob it was rough for sure mate but be honest we had a bloody ball doing it did we not. No safety nets then either physically or financial and we survived. Worked for Hornibrooks in Sydney and a few other small builders so we where both around to understand how the BLF worked. Did you like me also work out bush for a while as I found that as close to being back at sea as I could for mateship.

Captain Kong
15th September 2012, 07:31 PM
Hi Les I did Steel erecting when I came ashore for a spell when I got married in 1962,
As you say, no Safety regs. in those days, No ladders , climb up the stantions, knees on the inside feet on the outside and then shin up 50 feet or so. run along the beams, no safety nets over a concrete floor way below.
No harness, no safety boots or gloves, No safety helmets.
Tommy Jackson carried his bolts in his jacket pockets and these fell out like rain drops as he crawled across the beams.
When we were building a big Paper Machinary Factory with overhead cranes. Had to leap out of way when he was bolting up. One day I was below him and was making up a sling of Purlins, when he dropped his podger, I had just bent down as it hit me in my back ,dropping me to the deck, fortunately spanner end first, if it was sharp end it would have gone right through me. I had to go to the hospital and had four broken ribs.
Just had the weekend off, no sick pay then. I crushed my foot another time as a beam that was being made up in a sling fell on my foot. just wearing canvas shoes. Injury not too bad, just black toe nails and a bit of blood. There were many near misses.
On the next job, Sheffield Power Station, a big High one over one hundred feet , Tommy took a dive and landed on his head on the concrete base. it was instantanious. We just had a morning off for the funeral and then back on the job. I enjoyed the job, the only shore job that I could relate to close to seafaring.
Then in the coldest winter in 1962/3 we were laid off until the following spring. so had to find another job and then later went back to sea.
Cheers
Brian.

Les Woodard
15th September 2012, 11:24 PM
Must have had big bloody pockets is all I can say as we used to have a sack hanging from our belt so that we did not have to replemish our stock so much. Besides that would slow one down with not many bolts to pin the steel with. Had a foreman up in Bouganville that we nicknamed Judas. Told us that if we could erect thirty bits of steel that we could knock of for the day. Well we did it and he did not come to the party so hence the nickname. But yes it was a closest that I ever got to being back at sea probably because you had to rely on your mate for your own safety and vis versa. Just a bit of trivia Brian. When coming down and sliding down a column did you not like it when some bugger had left a jag of weld on the flange and it would tear a bit of your hand of but of course you could not let go. Similarity between that and handling topping lifts when a barb would do likewise.

Tony Wilding
15th September 2012, 11:52 PM
Degrees seem to have become all too common, in subjects that will never make a career, totally a waste of time , effort and money, and still no work experience. Apprenticeships are far more important, but the poor wage deters most. Degrees are for White Collar Jobs, not much good for manual work, they study for a Degree, then take a year out traveling, are 22 befor they have ever worked, an Apprentice is fully qualified by then, far more useful, providing there is work to do, when you hear of some of the subjects studied for Degrees its a big joke.

Les Woodard
16th September 2012, 07:17 AM
Another good lurk that they have here in Oz. Unemployed sign up for a degree that is studied at home vie a computer. Can take four years to complete so they are exempt from having to look for work because of study time. I wonder how many will complete these degrees before deciding that maybe they would be better of switching to another so as to prolong the course. Now they are talking of shortening the apprenticeship course and allowing them to finish early by a year or more so expect more cowboys coming into the workforce with indentures. Personally I have always thought what a crazy system the education one is. They go to school and once finished move into uni and do a degree to become a teacher. Then they move back into the school as a qualified teacher. So what experience have they had other than classroom activity. Then they are the ones that are preparing the next generation to go into the work force. Am I alone in seeing a huge mistake with this system. No wonder our kids when leaving school have poor attitudes towards work.

Keith Tindell
16th September 2012, 07:34 AM
i am sure that the plan was to keep them in education, and off the dole figures. That has backfired,as they are much later into the work situation, say 22 or 23, which means they are not contributing into the government pension scheme, hence the government have to move the retirement age out to 70 years. there is a huge blackhole with pensions, and in 20 years time they will all be on benifit. Years ago you could go to technical school to learn a trade, they all achieved university status, hence many daft degrees like media studies, whats that all about?? KT

happy daze john in oz
17th September 2012, 12:12 PM
[
The working man has the right to collective bargaining under the United Nations human rights conventions.


Which means he also has the right not to go for that.
One problem with colective bargaining, the worker and the non worker get the same.

My brother works for a small electrical company that does maintainance, repairs and a 24/7 emergency service. The company has 30 full time and 5 casual staff. The casual situation suits both employer and employee. All the full time are on individual contracts, wages based on exeprience and ability, the way it should be. The top ten get the use of their company vehicle 24/7 and all employees ahve their private health cover paid for by the company. In the past 5 years there have only been two employees leave, the company must be doing something right.
There are many such companies opperating here in Oz, but I cannot find any mention in any UN convention regarding collective bargaining.

Les Woodard
17th September 2012, 11:57 PM
Well I am wondering what part of Oz you live in because that does not ring true here. Sure if a group of tradesmen have a collective bargain then just simply if they are all doing the same work then they would get the same rate. If there is a margin of skill involved in their job then within the collective bargain that person would get recognition for that skill and be paid for it. Example two boilermakers working on the same job would get the same rate. One of them has a pressure welders ticket then he would be on a higher rate and that would not be in dispute under the collective bargaining here in NSW at least. All workers are entitiled to be paid for margins of skill. Yes there are work places that will work outside that system and it works real well. The reason it does that is because the firm knows that if they do not look after their workers as such then there is always the opportunity for the workers to revert back to collective bargaining. Take that away and watch the hourly rate plummet. I can not get over how there are people that seem to have come from the blue collar that soak up all the BS that is thrown around as to how the workers and union is so bad. Facts are Facts and that is if the bosses had not exploited the worker in the first place then there never would have been a need for a union and there are those that want to go back to that time while they sit back racking in their pensions and benifits that where won through unions sweat.

Tony Wilding
18th September 2012, 04:44 AM
You are correct Les, it was because of pittance wages and slavery conditions that Unions came into being, the difference between the lifestyle of the bosses and workersin Victorian times was shocking, Edwardian the same, the first world war helped change things, some Unions eventually got too powerful. looked after there own interests more than the members, slavery conditions still going on, in africa at that platinum mine, miners working in terrible conditions for a pittance, then shot by the police, bosses now are taking advantage of workers, no contracts of employment, just working from day to day, a friend worked almost 2 years for Argos in the warehouse, used to be sent home regular, saying no work, after driving 20 miles each way, they would not phone him first to let him know, the goverment does nothing. thats a major national company.

happy daze john in oz
18th September 2012, 06:13 AM
Yes over time the unions have won better conditions and wages for the working man, but now I am of the opinion they have lost the plot. In all the Liberal held states the unions are taking aim at the government of the day. Here in Victoria we ahve most of the big ones, CFMEU, Teachers, nurses, police and SES all having a go asking for rediculous wage ries well outside of any infaltion figure. Over the last 11 years of ALP gov they accepted wage rises in line with inflation, now all they are trying to do is paint the Liberal gov as bad news. They forget they only represent about 16% of the workforce now. That in my opinion is why so many are now turning against them. There are many large companies that have negotiated a good outcome for employees without the union being there.
Whilst I was in the Uni system I negotiated an enterprise agreement with my catering department staff. Worked with the shop steward and the human resources manager. By the request of the staff we did not engage the union in the negotiations. When they had been ratified by the industrial relations department we had a visist from th eunion asking why they had not been engaged. when told the staff did not want them there they kicked up a stink saying it would be unfair to other establishments as our staff were now on a wage higher than the award.

Les Woodard
18th September 2012, 07:12 AM
The fact that in NSW that has gone Liberal and slashed public service jobs in Heath, Education and essential services would not have anything to do with unions complaining. Like wise in Queensland where the newly elected Liberal lot are starting to do exactly the same thing would not be getting the unions backs up either would it. Now it seems that the people are starting to see a pattern happening if the mad monk (Tony Abbot Liberal leader) get in. Could that have something to do with his standing in the polls dropping. To say that the unions are making it rough for Liberals is a bloody joke. Labour does not stand a chance of winning the federal election next year but the way the Liberals are going they are making the right noises to loose it. I like to think that I stand on the outside concerning politics as I tar them all with the same brush but when stalwart Liberals try to nit pick what is happening without really telling the whole story is just showing how blinkered they are. For years now it seems the Mantra of the Liberal Party has been to screw the worker to the extent one of the past Liberal PM (Fraser) left the Liberal party in disgust. There are more there with the same horror as to how it has gone to the pack. I expect a list of Labours faults now and guess what I probably agree with you over them. Still believe in the old saying? What is the difference between Labour and Liberal. Nothing. They will each screw you and your only choice is whether you want it done slow or fast.

Des Taff Jenkins
19th September 2012, 06:19 AM
Hi All.
Hi big Bob Petty, yes it was a hard time,I know I struggled with the safefty aspect when I was site union chairman at Westmed Hospital. Remember the little Maori dogman? I was talking to you and him one day; and was holding onto the wire from the tower crane with my foot in the sling when he gave the signal and I shot up about ten feet, nearly Sh%&$t myself. But it was a good job alround.
Days that we will never see again.
Cheers Des

10907

happy daze john in oz
19th September 2012, 06:59 AM
The fact that in NSW that has gone Liberal and slashed public service jobs ....................

Les I appreciate the fact we can have arobust debate on this without killing one another.
I think John Hewson summed it up well the other week when he said that the problem with both sides now is that they are not focusing on what the nation needs, or what is good for it, rather how can they get the electorate to vote for them?
On the issue of public service, an idea has been put forward by Cameron in UK and is being considered here in Victoria. Reduce the public service as there are far too mnay non productive ones and outsource some of the services they offer. For example there is consideration being given to getting the Salvos to run the public housing service. Th ereason being given, they have a much better idea of the genuine needs of the people, far more than any guy sitting in an aivory tower some where. The idea I think has merit and if controled might just work.

Les Woodard
19th September 2012, 07:21 AM
John the worse thing that ever happened to Oz politics was the show "Yes Minister" They have been following that script and improving on it since it first went to air. Now this is a fact. Was in a room when a politician got elected for the first time and he remarked that his wife bought him the full series of that show and laughed about it. I think they use it as a training video for first timers. Sure they will cut back public servants but which ones is the big question because I bet there is not a reduction on political advisers like Humphry and Co. Hewson got it right that is all they are interested in but unfortunatly there will be dedicated voters for both of them that will follow like bloody sheep and the rest of us have no choice but to either put in an informal vote or choose what size jar of vasaline to get. Can not understand how someone can be so dedicated to either party as some seem to be by looking at that particular party through rose tinted glasses. How's this for a forward projection when the Liberals get in. GST will be raised because the some Liberal states are calling for it already so in a way not much of a projection more a certainty.

Captain Kong
19th September 2012, 08:11 AM
I have just recieved this email...........................
.
.Here’s how a doctor explains it:
A woman in her late 20's came to the hospital today with her 8th pregnancy

She said to me me "My mum told me that I am the breadwinner for the family."

I asked her to explain. She said that she can make babies and babies get money from the State for the family.

It goes like this:

The Grandma calls the Department for work and pensions, and states that the unemployed daughter is not capable of caring for all of her kids. DWP agrees, and tells her the children will need to go into foster care.

The Grandma then volunteers to be the foster parent, and receives a cheque for £700 per child each month.

Total yearly income:

£58,800 soon to become £67200 when the 8th one is born, tax-free and nobody has to go to work!

In fact, they get more if there is no husband/father/man in the home! The brother does not count.

Not to mention free dental treatment, free housing, free council tax free school dinners, free tuition fees at college or Uni, free eyecare and glasses, free prescriptions and various other benefits...

Total value of all benefits combined probably approaching £100,000 per annum which would require an income of around £148000 to create.

That's about my salary as a senior consultant with years of experience and surgical skills in a central London teaching hospital.

Indeed, Grandma was correct that her fertile daughter is the "breadwinner" for the family.

This is how the politicians spend our taxes. When this generous programme was invented in the '60s, the Great Society architects forgot to craft an end date... and now we are hopelessly overrun with people who vote only for those who will continue to keep them on the dole.....

No wonder our country is broke!

Are we alarmed yet, is anybody listening?

Sincerely,

***********************

Guys Hospital trust - London

Don't forget to pay your taxes!!

There are a lot of “breadwinners” depending on you!

happy daze john in oz
20th September 2012, 07:00 AM
Les you are right on that. I have no argument with the original concept of the trade union movement. My gripe now is the way it has gone in becoming a political force. From my perspective being a union delegate is the gateway to becoming a politician. There are now so many in all our parliaments, or in the queue for preselsction. That in my opinion is where they went wrong.

Bob Petty
1st October 2012, 03:05 AM
Less, I never worked in the bush, but did 6 months on Grute Island in the Gulf of Carpentera when I first come to the fair country in 1970.
That was an eye opener to say the least.
Got my riding dog-mans ticket, and worked in Sydney.
Ended up driving tower cranes, as you say very interesting times.
I still carry a lump on the back of my head from an over enthusiastic copper who took a dislike to me on a Rocks demonstration.

Glenn Baker
1st October 2012, 10:09 AM
On Listening to Allan jones the Sydney Radio broadcastor in his two year tirade of slamming anyone who is below his station in life Id rather stay just as I am.
Im sure John Howard was not subject to the terrible verbal abuse that this present Prime Minister is. Mr jones is also a friend of Mr tony Abbott, I will never ever forget Mr Abbott laughing at a Man who was dying of Asbestiosis some two years ago and even telling him there was nothing wrong with him.
He also is not a suitable man to Lead this country.

Glenn Baker

Les Woodard
2nd October 2012, 12:13 AM
Bob was thinking of when I was rigging on the Phillip / Hunter St job and they had to rig up an electic signal to the crane driver because the doorman at the hotel used to give out two whistles for a cab. Then we had to have the electric outlets locked after a few on site thought that they where power outlets and drive the crane driver mad with continuall buzzing LOL. Great days had plenty of laughs rigging. Not unusual for three or four of us get into the slings and be lowered to the ground or raised up to the job.

happy daze john in oz
2nd October 2012, 06:14 AM
On Listening to Allan jones the Sydney Radio broadcastor in his two year tirade of slamming anyone who is below his station in life.........

Glenn, freedom of speech is a good thing but at times it can lead to some terrible outcomes. I do not agree with the comments of Jones but will defend his right to say them. He has been at Gillard quite a bit but nmaybe with good reason, she is a serial purveyor of terminilogical inexatatudes.

Des Taff Jenkins
2nd October 2012, 06:35 AM
HI Glen.
I only listen to radio when in the car waiting for my wife doing the banking or a bit of shopping, I was intrigued by all this talk of Jones so awhile ago I tuned in, I have never heard such verbal diarrhoea coming from one mans mouth in my life, the man is so totally anti feminist I suspect he must be jealous of women, which makes me think!!!!The only time I have heard anything like it was Gobel's diatibes during the war, There may be freedom of speach, but there is such a thing as decency.
Cheers Des :rolleyes:

Les Woodard
2nd October 2012, 07:04 AM
Wonder why those that keep on about freedom of speach are usualy the ones with the most narrowest minds. We lost that freedom years ago if you really open your mind to how past political parties have altered the rules on it. Who can forget not long ago that if more than three people where to gather in the street to have a chat that they could be arrested in Queensland. Thanks to Joe. Where was freedom of speach when millions protested about going to war in Iraq thanks to the three amigo's Bush, Blair and Howard. Think that saying has really been played out long ago. Even on sight some words have to be changed because of PC it might offend some bloody of white person. Give me strength. Even though I am black I can not say that I am black or is that allowed.

happy daze john in oz
3rd October 2012, 07:04 AM
I agree to some point on that Les, the federal gov is trying to change the mdia laws because they do not like what some journalists say. But we the people are to blame, we idly sit by and allow the minorities to take over. The PC brigade, the do good brigade etc, they have taken over and we have allowed it to happen. But if we do not speak up at every chance then we will be gone. Tell your local MP what you think, I do, tell the local council. We as the populous have the power but we do not use it.

Captain Kong
3rd October 2012, 08:19 AM
Tell your local MP what you think, I do, tell the local council. We as the populous have the power but we do not use it. HD J.
.
I try to tell my MP what I think but unfortunately I dont speak Urdu very well.
Brian

Bob Petty
3rd October 2012, 08:37 AM
Less.
The best job on a building site:: Riding Dogman, loved it.
Lots of stories and plenty of bullshit, hard working big drinking days, like being at sea, but in the same port all the time

Les Woodard
3rd October 2012, 11:59 PM
Bob did you ever try out on bush jobs as that was the closest I came to be with a crew similar to a ships crew minus the upper deck crowd. Now there are many yarns both on elastic and actual from them days LOL. Great for the drinker as well. After about a month before hitting town would build up ones thirst I can tell you. Smallest crew I worked with was four Foreman and three riggers.

happy daze john in oz
4th October 2012, 05:50 AM
I try to tell my MP what I think but unfortunately I dont speak Urdu very well.


Do they still have night school over there? Maybe you still have time to learn! LOL

Bob Petty
6th October 2012, 09:14 AM
Is this the same Allen Jones!! who a few years back who was busted in a gents toilet in London with his pants round his ankles??
If I remember rightly he was an official on a Kangaroos rugby tour.
Your right he don't like women.

Gulliver
6th October 2012, 10:27 AM
Is this the same Allen Jones!! who a few years back who was busted in a gents toilet in London with his pants round his ankles??
If I remember rightly he was an official on a Kangaroos rugby tour.
Your right he don't like women.



Perhaps he was just having a SH*T ,and the stalking press made something of it--or are you just being homophobic?


You can't be famous these days (politician,celebrity,sportsman,broadcaster whatever ,)without your private life being minutely examined ,and any trivial mundane facts added to the mix to make a sensational ,denigrating story.

His sexual persuasions and peccadilloes aside ,from what I've read and heard the guy has balls and I wish we had outspoken controversial radio broadcasters like him in the U.K.11057
There are none at the BBC( naturally), and just a few at LBC.

Gulliver

Bob Petty
12th October 2012, 02:00 AM
Sorry old chap Allen Jones is just a ******, who never cheeks the facts on what he is talking about.
Another like him is John Laws, same format as Allen Jones, but on another Radio station.
Involved in a huge land scandal in Ballarat Victoria in the early 1970s, both of them would sell Grand mama, if it would be an advantage to them.
If a caller is getting the better of them in a discussion the caller gets cut of.
Allen Jones, not the sharpest toll in the shed.

happy daze john in oz
12th October 2012, 04:18 AM
Like most of the shock jocks on talk back radio here in Oz Alan Jones has his followers and critics. Most do not like it when the caller appears to be getting the better of them, but they do at times hit some very hard notes. One here in Melbourne, Derryn Hinch, named a priest who he knew was involved with young children. He spent time in jail for that but has continued his campaing to out all those who interfere with kids. The more the shock jocks shock the more chance companies will want to advertise with the station, so very often the commenst are more aimed at getting ratings points than maybe giving all the facts. typical media, never let the truth get in the way of a good story. But love them or hate them they continue to reign.

Gulliver
12th October 2012, 07:56 AM
If a caller is getting the better of them in a discussion the caller gets cut off.
Alan Jones, not the sharpest tool in the shed.

Bob,you’ll find that’s pretty much standard for any radio phone-in show.
I’ve been cut-off mid-flow once,but usually they use the pretext of time constraints and have to take a break.They will then continue after the break--with another caller.
James O’Brien on LBC-London Broadcasting Company-London’s Biggest Conversation (http://www.lbc.co.uk/)-is a master at doing just that,especially when your viewpoint is contrary to his.

Sending an e-mail to be read out during a live show is also worthless,as they are obviously vetted by a producer or researcher,who usually don’t know enough about the subject under discussion anyway.
I feel sure that my literary skills are not lacking,so it must be my contrary viewpoint to the presenter that excludes them being aired.

So ,unable to reply,I just sit there listening and fume,whilst popping another blood pressure pill…or two,before logging on here and listening to all the rantings and ravings about the world -and the UK in particular. (I’m tongue in cheek there !)


Thankfully we don’t have that kind of censorship on our site here. 11095
All the Best
Gulliver

happy daze john in oz
13th October 2012, 05:31 AM
Thankfully we don’t have that kind of censorship on our site here. 11095
All the Best
Gulliver[/QUOTE]

What's that you say, you do not like our censored comments! Stand in the corner lad while we give you ten lashes with a fresh lettuce leaf.

Les Woodard
13th October 2012, 11:20 PM
You mean to say that there are people who listen to these shows? I have better things to do than to waste time and heartbeats listening to a one sided converstation which it seemed to me was happening when I inadvertantly tuned into one of them years ago. It was not informative then and seems like it is still the same today. As the old saying goes? Follow the money and you will see where it all eminates from.

j.sabourn
14th October 2012, 02:54 AM
What more could you ask for. The pollies and the media, both tarred with the same brush, trying to crucify each other. Its a pity they couldnt annilihate each other and give us all a break. While they are both spinning lines and trying to b....t the general public in the process, the real world and people can get on with their lives without too much bother from the second rate journalists which abound in our present day society. Regards John Sabourn

Les Woodard
15th October 2012, 06:02 AM
Ah just to be normal and expect to go through the day without BS cropping up makes me wonder if becoming Blind, Deaf and dumb would not do the trick because everywhere seems to be geared up to stress one out. The latest idea to hit the stupid idea catagory is to increase the price of alcohol. Make a cask of wine that was around $12 for five litres go up to $47 a cask and same such increases for beers and spirits. The logic is to make it to dear to purchase. Will be dusting of the old wine making gear as well as the distillery equipment alond side the fermentaion vat for my beer. Along with everyone else if this crazy idea get legs. These people actually get paid by us which makes it worse. Might be an exodus of ex pats heading back there soon to dilute the population to a whiter shade of white.

happy daze john in oz
18th October 2012, 06:05 AM
My understanding Les is that the idea first came from Scotland and the Uk are also considereing a similar scheme.we can never go back mate, the place is full already and I hear the drawbridge is up.

Les Woodard
18th October 2012, 06:07 AM
We are Doomed I say we are Doomed Doomed. Do you hear me.

Colin Hawken
18th October 2012, 02:21 PM
Unfortunately John the drawbridge is still down and they're still pouring in.:(

Bob Petty
9th November 2012, 02:39 AM
This reminds me of Noel Coward who when in Sydney was asked by a reporter from the Sydney Morning Herald are you a homosexual?? Replied, no I am not, but the man I go to bed with is.

Bob Petty
16th February 2014, 09:05 AM
Sorry I missed your post about Westmead Hospital, I must be getting old and my eyesight fading, I made contact with Ian Smith a few weeks past he has retired to the Mid North Cost.

Keith at Tregenna
17th February 2014, 02:54 AM
Still working for Cunard.

K.