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Tony Wilding
3rd August 2011, 12:56 PM
Hello to everyone, have been without success to to trace my fathers ships, kew cant help, his discharge book records are lost, canada cant help, i know o 3 he sailed on, rangitiki, fort augustus, ernest g pathy ex fort grouard, was a chief steward with watts watts during and after the war, am trying to make a photo record of his ships, he was torpedoed in ww2 i think on a watts watts ship but survived, do any of our members remember jimmy wilding and what ship they were on together, ? Any information at all. Tony wilding, :)

Ray Buck
3rd August 2011, 07:16 PM
Tony
as you do have some information, I would suggest that the only way to find the ships that he signed too would be to work backward from the last known ships official crew agreement , when signing the previous ship was usually entered on the agreement,
could be drawn out and expensive !!
Ray

Tony Wilding
3rd August 2011, 07:22 PM
Thanks Ray, i was not aware of that, may give that a try, tony wilding.:confused:

Ray Buck
3rd August 2011, 07:59 PM
Could this be him ? There was a James S Wilding as 3rd Butcher signed on the “Rangitiki” ( official No 149561) in Liverpool on the 20th October 1943 aged 40 with 2 years service (DoB circa 1904) when he signed, the ship arrived in New York on the 7th November 1943
It may be that he did several voyages in January, March, June, July September, November 1944

There was a James Wilder arrived in Liverpool September 1942 aboard the “Britannic” as a DBS from Bombay assistant butcher the ships list is difficult to read his age seems to be 38 an address is given as 170 Monega ? Road Forrest gate London, the name of the ship is unreadable very blurred
Ray
PS log should be in
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/searchresults.asp?fldLettercodeRef=BT&fldClassRef=381&fldSearchNumber=21045&fldInvert=0&SearchInit=6

Hugh
3rd August 2011, 08:01 PM
Tony,
Ray is quite correct and that is the only way you can do it if his records have not survived.

However, and with respect to you, Kew have a very bad habit of dismissing enquirers. I am very well aware that not all CRS 10s have survived but unlike seamen's pouches most have and you would be quite unlucky if there were no records. Remember, Kew will only look in the file reference that you supply to them unless you pay them to carry out more detailed research.

So in an effort to save you some money could you tell me what you asked Kew for and what was their reply? I don't know if I asked you before but can you also tell me when he left the MN?

Regards
Hugh

Tony Wilding
3rd August 2011, 08:53 PM
First i would like to say thankyou for your help, to all who have given there time. His address was 170 monega road, i was born there, if he was dbs on brittanic, maybe he was torpedoed befor that, maybe on another nzsc ship, i did visit kew 2 years ago and came away pretty disappointed with there lack of interest. My problem now is i have severe arthritus, cant walk 100 yards, so impossible to go back . I am not sure when he left the mn, he died when i was about 16 that was 1955, had separated from my mother befor that, as far as i know he was at sea shortly befor he died.last ship i have knowledge he was on was ss fort augustus as chief steward in 1947/48, was`senior chief steward with watts watts so must have been with them some time, my mother said whenever watts had a new ship he got the job as c/steward. Well from 1949 the new ones were, woodford, wanstead, wendover, my enquiry to kew asked for his records giving dob, dis book number and the names of 3 ships he was on, rangitiki, fort augustus and ernest g pathy, owned by federal commerce of montreal canada, but crewed by watts watts,, thanks again to everyone. Tony wilding.:):)

Hugh
3rd August 2011, 09:45 PM
Hello Tony,

I feel sure that if someone can look in this file you will find your dad's records: BT 382/1941.
Kew will fob you off if you don't fill in the correct form and follow the correct process.

If you can get someone to look for you it will save a lot of hassle, believe me.
Regards
Hugh

Tony Wilding
3rd August 2011, 10:12 PM
thanks hugh, i will look into that, maybe next week i can drive there and try, if i can park close by .whatever happens i will inform u of any success, tony wilding.

Ray Buck
4th August 2011, 06:44 AM
Perhaps some one could decipher the name of the ship ...
Ray

Tony Wilding
4th August 2011, 10:50 AM
Hi, it gets worse if magnified, pity, but at least you tried. Thanks, tony.

Tony Wilding
8th August 2011, 07:28 PM
Hi again, i decided to get a paid search from kew, no way can i walk around there all day, and have tklen the plunge, gave all info that has been given to me by you all, plus what i know, dont know how long they take to do the search, or if they post any results to me, maybe its a email, so now i wait and hope, canada got back to me , but hold no wartime records, from 1939. They need to know names and dates of ships he served on, for crew lists, that i dont have. For the period they have records for.from 39 to 51 they dont have records. Anyway at least i have what u have found for me, am so pleased, thanks to all who took time to look. Tony wilding.;)

Tony Wilding
8th August 2011, 08:58 PM
;)This may jog someones memory. ?

Tony Wilding
25th August 2011, 03:00 PM
Hello, well so far i have aquired 2 more photos of his ships, ss fort augustus from south wales museum, and ss ernest g pathy, ex fort grouard from archives of canada, am waiting on paid search results from kew, 21 days now. Lets hope kew comes up with something, ? I think result from there depends on who does the search. ;)

Tony Wilding
1st September 2011, 07:00 PM
Hi again, thanks for all your advice, my fathers seatime records arrived today from kew, was well pleased with the result, cost £45 for the search. Total of 12 ships, . Tony wilding.

Hugh
1st September 2011, 08:02 PM
Glad you got there in the end Tony. £45 is roughly about right for what Kew charge for a CRS 10. Daylight robbery in my opinon - you could get it for under a tenner up until recently.

Regards
Hugh

Tony Wilding
1st September 2011, 09:56 PM
HELLO HUGH, Problem is they make the rules, we can do nothing, but its strange how the price increases over 4 times. pensions dont, the NMM at Greenwich charge £30 now for a 7x5 photo. that is a rip off ! could go on for ever about unfair charges, VAT is a completely disgusting way of robbing us, we pay tax on earnings, then taxed when we spend the little that is left,how can it be correct and fair if u make repairs to your house u pay VAT, or your car, my private pension gets taxed, lose £80 a month, i am 72 , still work part time, could not run a car otherwise,i can understand the work shy and dossers, pay no tax, get all the benefits, but it wont change, best wishes, Tony Wilding.

Tony Wilding
2nd September 2011, 08:10 AM
the records i received, but still some missing, ships earlier than listed.

Tony Wilding
2nd September 2011, 08:15 AM
thats all of therm.

Tony Wilding
2nd September 2011, 06:49 PM
Could this be him ? There was a James S Wilding as 3rd Butcher signed on the “Rangitiki” ( official No 149561) in Liverpool on the 20th October 1943 aged 40 with 2 years service (DoB circa 1904) when he signed, the ship arrived in New York on the 7th November 1943
It may be that he did several voyages in January, March, June, July September, November 1944

There was a James Wilder arrived in Liverpool September 1942 aboard the “Britannic” as a DBS from Bombay assistant butcher the ships list is difficult to read his age seems to be 38 an address is given as 170 Monega ? Road Forrest gate London, the name of the ship is unreadable very blurred
Ray
PS log should be in
Detecting your browser settings (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/searchresults.asp?fldLettercodeRef=BT&fldClassRef=381&fldSearchNumber=21045&fldInvert=0&SearchInit=6)

managed to decipher the name of ship, SS ARONDA, CHEERS, TONY.

Hugh
2nd September 2011, 09:48 PM
Tony,

"the records i received, but still some missing, ships earlier than listed."

What ships are you missing. If I read your posts correctly your father joined in 1941?

Regards
Hugh

Tony Wilding
2nd September 2011, 11:06 PM
Hello hugh, first ship that kew sent me was ss aronda he joined her 13/03, 1942, thats the ship he left to come back dbs to uk on the britannic. I dont have knowledge of earlier ships, have no idea why he left the aronda and became dbs, the aronda survived the war. So he was not coming home as a survivor. ? ? Its a strange coincidence i sailed on one of the ships he did, after he died, mv wanstead. Thats really following your fathers footsteps. ! Regards, tony.

Hugh
3rd September 2011, 11:46 AM
Hello Tony,
That CR2 card in post #17 looks like a date of engagement on 'ARONDA 'of 13 March 1941 not 1942. What does your original look like?

I note the stamp of the MMO at North Shields. On that date in 1942 the ship appears to have been on her way from Columbo to Fremantle.

Regards
Hugh

Tony Wilding
3rd September 2011, 12:03 PM
Hello hugh, i think you have solved it, that date stamp does look as if its 1941, that would solve the missing time, thanks again, tony wilding.

Hugh
3rd September 2011, 12:40 PM
It would appear that 'ARONDA' arrived in Bombay around about 21 June 1942 and departed 3 July for Oz. The 'BRITANNIC' left Bombay on Aug7, 1942 with your father aboard along with other members of 'ARONDA' and crew from other ships heading for Liverpool [arrived 21 Sept 1942]. 'ARONDA' appears to have stayed foreign for some time so maybe he just exercised his option not to sign on for another trip.

The form CRS 10 has not recorded the 'BRITANNIC' voyage. These documents were written up ashore and do have mistakes and omissions. The form CRS 10 and indeed his CR2 card suggest he was discharged from 'ARONDA' in Dock St' around September 1942 but this is clearly incorrect and what it does show is his arrival from 'BRITANNIC'.

Regards
Hugh

Tony Wilding
3rd September 2011, 03:02 PM
HELLO HUGH, Cant thank you enough for all your help, i have tried to track ships movements, without success. TONY WILDING.

Hugh
3rd September 2011, 03:41 PM
You're welcome, Tony.

Movement cards can be downloaded to your computer. They are held at Kew in piece BT 389. Searchable database here: The National Archives | DocumentsOnline | Refine Browse Criteria (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/browse-refine.asp?CatID=37&searchType=browserefine&pagenumber=1&query=*&queryType=1:) The cost will be £3.50 to download a ship's cards to your computer. Movement cards also contain errors and omissions.

Cross refer with ConvoyWeb here: Arnold Hague Ports database (http://www.convoyweb.org.uk/ports/index.html?home.php~armain)
Click the link then on the left side click 'Ship Search' then enter the ship's name.

When using ConvoyWeb don't do too many searches at once or you will not be able to search again without contacting the Webmaster.

Regards
Hugh