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Doc Vernon
1st March 2011, 03:28 AM
To all ex Union Castle Line Employers!
Just thought that this bit of info on their Fleet may be of interest!
There are also a few other Links at bottom of page!
These too are interesting,i must say there are about 6 Ships (one in particular being the Polglass Castle) on the list that i had not heard of! What about others! Did you know of them all!?
Cheers

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union-Castle_Line

happy daze john in oz
1st March 2011, 05:17 AM
There are a number of UCL sites out there Vernon often from where I get my information and yes tere are a number of ships that many have not heard of. One site gives senior crew names and dates of sailings.

Doc Vernon
1st March 2011, 08:56 AM
Hi John
Yes i have been trawling the Net a bit today,and came across some good ones! aMAZING JUST HOW MANY THERE ARE!
That one of the Sailings and Crew came up too!
Thanks for the reply!
Cheers

Graham Payne
1st March 2011, 03:36 PM
Not sure but I think "Union Castle Line" owned the "St Thomas" an old South American Saint line ship, the reason I think this, I saw the Bosun of the St Thomas in a Cape Town bar ( Del Monicoes ? ) he was then the Bosun of a NEW cargo ship "CAPETOWN CASTLE" ?? which sunk shortly afterwards, circa '60's ?
Any info on how good my memory is ? ( would be much appreciated as it's not as good as it was ):o:)

happy daze john in oz
2nd March 2011, 04:58 AM
Graham mate having heard it in Delmonicos means it may just be a 'glass story'. There have been a number fo ships with Castle in the name that did not belong to UCL. The only Capetwon Castle I ever saw was the liner that had the engine explosion off Las palmas.

Doc Vernon
2nd March 2011, 05:28 AM
Hello Graham
Must agree with John on this,as i have never haerd of a ship belonging to the UCL called St Thomas!
But i could be incorrect on this!
The Cape Town Castle was as said a Passenger Ship,and also never heard of one that was an actual Cargo one?? Again i stand corrected!
But as John says and so true there were so many Yarns told in that Del Monico,who the H--- would believe any of it haha!:)
But bleedin good times had there i must say!
Even if we did at times get chucked out by the scruff of our Necks ! LOL:D
Cheers

The only Ships bythat name details as follows!

GSN Number Result:20080386
GSNNameYear BuiltTonnageTypeBuilt atFate YearFateLR/IMO
NumberOfficial NumberRemarks20080386 (http://gsn.ncl.ac.uk/?p=details&gsn=20080386)ST THOMAS19486855 cargolinerSunderland1978Scrapped-162154 (http://gsn.ncl.ac.uk/?p=details&officialno=162154)
Later Identities:
Change YearNameTonnageTypeRemarks1965YOCHOW6861 1965/ex St Thomas1971LUCKY FOUR6861 1971/ex St Thomas


GSN Number Result:20033406
GSNNameYear BuiltTonnageTypeBuilt atFate YearFateLR/IMO
NumberOfficial NumberRemarks20033406 (http://gsn.ncl.ac.uk/?p=details&gsn=20033406)GARONNE195924513 tankerNewcastle1976Scrapped5126380301034 (http://gsn.ncl.ac.uk/?p=details&officialno=301034)
Later Identities:
Change YearNameTonnageTypeRemarks1973ST THOMAS24097 1973/ex Garonne

Michael Rossouw
18th March 2011, 04:24 AM
The only two new cargo ships in the Union Castle fleet vere the Southampton Castle & the Goodhope Castle both looked alike and both were great ships ,I did three trips on the Goodhope Castle

Chris Isaac
31st March 2011, 08:41 AM
Ref Memory!! By Castleman

In 1962 British & Commonwealth (of which UC was part) took over the Management of South American Saint Line in much the same way as they managed Bowater ships.
The four ships were St John, St Essylt, St Thomas and St Rosario.
My first ship was St John as a cadet and I spent two great years on her.
All interest in SASL was removed when the ships were sold in 1965.

There was only one Capetown Castle and she did not sink but finally went to the breakers in 1967. I sailed as Jnr 4th Officer on her in 66 when she was the last UC ship to arrive in Southampton for the strike.
She suffered a very bad engine room explosion in Las Palmas and several engineers were killed.

vic mcclymont
11th June 2011, 01:52 PM
In 1962 British & Commonwealth (of which UC was part) took over the Management of South American Saint Line in much the same way as they managed Bowater ships.
.



I think you will find that B&C did not manage any ships and neither did it own any, B&C was a holding company for the multitude of companies within the group.
Cayzer Irvine managed the Bowater ships and King Line managed the remains of the South American Saint Line
until all of their ships had been disposed of, management period was from 1962 until 1965.
Not long after the merger with Clan & U-C, King line was appointed the shipping group company charterers and disposal company for the various group shipping companies.

Chris Isaac
11th June 2011, 09:05 PM
You win the annual Pedant of The Year Award

vic mcclymont
12th June 2011, 11:20 AM
You win the annual Pedant of The Year Award
Thank you kind sir, but in your case never let the facts get in the way of a good story

ajthornbury
2nd July 2011, 07:10 PM
Although employed by union castle I did do a coastal relief as electrician on the St Esylt in 1965, they were rather good looking and stream lined from what I remewmber of her

Geoff Anderson
3rd July 2011, 10:33 PM
Morning all.
quote,
The Cape Town Castle was as said a Passenger Ship,and also never heard of one that was an actual Cargo one?? Again i stand corrected!

The capetown C was a cargo ship as well as a 1 class passinger ship.
If i remember she had 5 holds, the first trip i was on her she was crrying passingers and cargo, the second trip was cargo only. This was in late 65 and early 66
geoff

Doc Vernon
4th July 2011, 05:26 AM
Not to upset the applecart,as far as i recall the Capetown Castle was always a Passenger Ship carrying both 1st and Tourist Class,it did also carry Cargo at times,but was never actually in the Cargo Ship Class!
Now i suppose i wll be shot down in flames haha!:)

Chris Isaac
4th July 2011, 05:43 AM
Not to upset the applecart,as far as i recall the Capetown Castle was always a Passenger Ship carrying both 1st and Tourist Class,it did also carry Cargo at times,but was never actually in the Cargo Ship Class!
Now i suppose i wll be shot down in flames haha!:)

No flames from me, she carried 1st and Tourist class passengers up until she went on to "Extra Service" in 1965 because she could not make the 22.5 knot mail run.
After 65 she was all Tourist with differing grades of cabin, much the same principal as Transvaal Castle.
She carried cargo in 7 cargo holds, mainly general, mail and baggage southbound and mail, refrigerated fruit, mail and bullion north bound.

George
4th July 2011, 08:01 AM
Hi Chris Your account of the Capetown Castle is spot on, I was Leading Hands Mess Steward on her for two trips. But to add fuel to the Fire regards her being a Cargo Ship, shorely she would have come under the clasification of a Cargo Pasanger Ship, as would have been many ships of that era. The onley Liners I can think of from that period would have been the Queen Mary & Queen Elizabeth, and maybe the Mauritainia from the UK's MN fleet, all they had was one Fwd Hatch that took cars baggage and some stores if my memory serves me right. Also I think that Union Castle retained control of running there own ships after being merged or taken over by Clan Line later to become British and Comonwealth, And the leading light behined it all was a Bernard Kyser. I hope this will encorage moore on the debate :eek:
George in Southampton

Geoff Anderson
4th July 2011, 09:24 AM
No shooting from me Vernon, after all i lost two holds somewhere.:p

happy daze john in oz
5th July 2011, 07:01 AM
Yes George all the UCL liners were indeed passenger/cargo. Most had at least six holds for cargo and some had as many as eight. I believe it was only the mail contract/bullion that made the company any profit in later years as proits from the bloods was very low and no doubt made lower by the antics of unscurpulous cheif and second stewards.

Richard Culligan
6th July 2011, 07:38 PM
I know am responding to an old post but have only recently become a member of this site.
Am researching family history and have come across a Ronald Moyse who served with Union Castle as a Captains Steward but back in the early 1940's.

Am unable to find anything on the web but could any ex Union Castle people help / direct me to any web sites.

Thanks
Richard (R846959)

happy daze john in oz
7th July 2011, 06:21 AM
I know am responding to an old post but have only recently become a member of this site.
Am researching family history and have come across a Ronald Moyse who served with Union Castle as a Captains Steward but back in the early 1940's.

Am unable to find anything on the web but could any ex Union Castle people help / direct me to any web sites.

Thanks
Richard (R846959)

Richard there are a number of UCL sites out there. If you just Google Union Castle it will bring them all up. I know one that had some crew listings is now defunct but there may be some others. Generally the only crew members shown on such sites are officers and some PO's. But if you keep trying you may get to some of them. There was a site where crew members could be found but not sure if it is still there. when Vernon comes back on site he may be able to give you some information on this as I know he has accessed some of them. Will pass your request onto him.

George
7th July 2011, 09:31 AM
Hi Richard Just to add to Johns reply, you could also look in at the National Archives, not shure how to do this myself but there are members on site that could inform you how to go about it.
George
in Southampton

Doc Vernon
7th July 2011, 10:02 AM
Hello Richard
Welcome to the site,hope you have a good stay and find what you are seeking!
Not sure on the person you are looking for but there is an MOYSE R at the N Archives but may not be what you want!
The National Archives | The Catalogue | Full Details | BT 372/1277/81 (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATLN=7&CATID=-3465085&j=1)

I will also look at another site,but at present cant get on to it!
Sorry for delay but have been offline owing to severe Storms here in Aus!
Cheers

alf corbyn
7th July 2011, 03:50 PM
hi vernon. did the storm affect your typing finger? haha. alf

SPELLING DONE

Richard Culligan
7th July 2011, 04:46 PM
Vernon

Thanks for that - I just can't seem to get how the NA works.

In this instance do not think it is as the Ronald Moyse I'm looking for had a middle initial of H but will research it.

To add to the confusion I also had another relative this time Ralph Moyse who served as a Chief Steward with Cunard during WW1. With assistance I have now got his medal cards.

It does not help research when one has so many relatives over a couple of generations with the first initial 'R and same surname'!!!!!

Cheers

Richard (R846959)

Doc Vernon
7th July 2011, 10:38 PM
Hi Richard
The other site called A Staff Register is at present down ,and not sure when it will be up and runnung again!
But will keep an Eye out for all those Moyse,s haha!:)Sorry for that !
Seriously though,if anything comes up i will let you know!
Cheers

Meanwhile you can look at this info regarding finding Seaman.

Merchant seamen: sea service records 1913-1972 | The National Archives (http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/records/research-guides/merchant-seamen-sea-service-1913-1972.htm)

Richard Culligan
5th September 2011, 09:58 PM
Hi Vernon

Have had some luck via one of my brothers. We have actually found a copy page of Ronald H Moyse's ID card (with photo) on Findmypast. He Dis No. was A584783 and he served as a Head Waiter on the Garth Castle Nov 1918 - May 1919, the Gloucester Castle Aug 1921 so there appears to be some gaps. There are other dates shown for 1919 but they are along side two numbers '132611' and '139107' not sure yet what they represent.

Also following the NA links you sent me have also found another R Moyse!!!! relative who was in the WW1 submarine service in the Dardanelles; a mission for which the whole crew were Gazetted so thanks for that.

Cheers

Richard

Richard Culligan
4th March 2012, 01:30 PM
I know am responding to an old post but have only recently become a member of this site.


Following my above message am currently pulling together photos of all the ships my relative Ronald Moyse sailed on. The only vessel I can't find a picture of is the HUNTS CASTLE (139107?). Would anyone know if there is one please?

Thanks

Richard (R846959)

robpage
4th March 2012, 03:12 PM
The two sites that contain lists are Union-Castle Mail SS Co. (http://www.theshipslist.com/ships/lines/ucastle.html) and Wikipedia as Vernon pointed out earlier in this thread .As I had not heard of Hunts Castle I have trawled these sites and a few others , and can find absolutly no trace of a Hunts Castle whatsoever . There were CAstle and Hunt Class Royal Naval warships , but still no Hunts Castle listed there either . The only Hunts Castle that I could Find at all was a Hotel in Rockport Tx . Is the name definatly that ?

Gulliver
4th March 2012, 05:19 PM
From Miramar Ship Index



 
s.s. HUNTSCASTLE (one word) O.N. 139107-was a 4,584 a grt cargo vessel completed 8/1902 by Flensburger Dockyard,Flensburg for
Dampfs-Ges "Argo" ,Bremen and named LOUISIANA.
1905 Owned by Woermann Linie,Hamburg,and renamed ERNA WOERMANN
1915- Taken and operated by British Government until 1921 and renamed HUNTSCASTLE
1921 returned to Deutsche Ost-Afrika Linie ,Hamburg and renamed SULTAN
1933 (4th quarter) Broken up by Blohm & Voss,Hamburg.

Regards

robpage
4th March 2012, 08:30 PM
The one word threw me , with it being in the UCL forum I assumed that it was two , Whoops ....

Doc Vernon
4th March 2012, 08:41 PM
Same as last Post,(by Gulliver) but just to show that it was indeed Run at some stage by UCL!
Cheers

Louisiana 1902 built by Flensburger Schiffsbau Gesellschaft, Flensburg | 1905 sold to Woermann Linie renamed Erna Woermann, 1914 captured by HMS Cumberland in Douala, renamed Huntscastle, operated by Union-Castle Mail SS Co. 1921 sold to Deutsche Afrika Linien renamed Sultan, 1933 scrapped. 5,408

8871

PS Here is that lost link at last!Sorry

http://unioncastlestaffregister.co.uk/a_ SHIPMATES_ABC.html

Richard Culligan
4th March 2012, 09:47 PM
Thank you all for your replies.

Initially I also thought it should be two words and kept finding hotels!!!!

I did undertake a search of the NA and managed to get a copy of his ID card (with photo!) which does state vessel number 139107 (Huntscastle) and him joining / leaving it on the 20th Dec 1919. The ID card shows his rating as 'Head Waiter' plus showed that he also sailed on the Garth Castle 1918/1919 and the Gloucester Castle 1921.

Again many thanks.

Richard (R846959)

alf corbyn
5th March 2012, 10:34 AM
hi vernon just realised that your new avatar is the MN shield. thank you once again for my one and thanks also for the pic of delmonico's what memories. haha

Doc Vernon
5th March 2012, 10:37 AM
No Probs at all Alf,it was my pleasure!
Take care
DOC

Only prob is with it being as an Avatar the print is a bit too small owing to the size restrictions so i cannot see it especially with these Eyes LOL!
Cheers

Here is a larger Pic !

8876

ajthornbury
24th March 2012, 03:30 PM
B&C did manage St Line, I was serving on Rothesay castle normally, but having had leave and waiting for Rothsay, I did a coastal voyage on St Essylt.
They seemed nice comfortable ships, with very streamlined funnels. Looked more like a yacht.

ajthornbury
16th May 2018, 06:35 PM
Union Castle didn't own any Saint Ships, but parent British & Commonwealth did manage the crew lists.
I was UC staff (Lecky) and did a coastal relief on St Essylt.
Alan J.

robpage
16th May 2018, 07:32 PM
There is a good bit of detail on Chris Isaacs b&c staff register
South American Saint Line (http://www.bandcstaffregister.com/page2863.html)

happy daze john in oz
17th May 2018, 06:32 AM
UCL, then B&C has a long and interesting history well worth reading.


Like many others began with one purpose, mail delivery, then amalgamated with others and diversified.
UCL, B&C, Safmarine, Clan Line and a few others along the way.

A good book on this is
'Every Thursday at 4 O'Clock'

vic mcclymont
17th May 2018, 08:35 AM
Wiki in error again Safmarine was not owned or part of UCL.
Clan Line in 1950 owned 50 percent of Safmarine, and Clan recommended Bomber Harris for the job of Chairman of Safmarine.
Over the years Clan then B&C held shares in
Safmarine and in the. eighties their shareholding was reduced to 24per cent.
C.I shipping and Safmarine formed Cl Safmarine Shipping which in turn became Pelmore Shipping before morphing into London Ship Managers.
Vic

Robbie Kaye
8th July 2018, 04:10 PM
thats true i was on the night gang aboard her and it was said that you could hear the Chief engindriver walking down the allyways in his flip -flops, not sure if it was true but i did look behind me once or twice.

Red Lead Ted
9th July 2018, 03:51 PM
Not sure but I think "Union Castle Line" owned the "St Thomas" an old South American Saint line ship, the reason I think this, I saw the Bosun of the St Thomas in a Cape Town bar ( Del Monicoes ? ) he was then the Bosun of a NEW cargo ship "CAPETOWN CASTLE" ?? which sunk shortly afterwards, circa '60's ?
Any info on how good my memory is ? ( would be much appreciated as it's not as good as it was ):o:)

Simmer Graham,Keep taking the scotch mate I remember her She did go down............................. She was renamed the SS Bouncy Castle :whoopdedoo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NR7trlXCgpw

Captain Kong
9th July 2018, 04:31 PM
AND THERE IS THIS...…………
GOOD HOPE CASTLE (2) was built in 1965 by Swan, Hunter & Wigham Richardson at Wallsend with a tonnage of 10538grt, a length of 592ft, a beam of 77ft 5in and a service speed of 22.5 knots.

The second 'Mini Mail' fast cargo ship, her delivery was delayed by 3.5 months during which time the Capetown Castle had to undertake her sailings but her eventual arrival meant that seven ships could handle the mail contract requirements instead of eight.

She was the first of the pair to have her accommodation altered to cater for the government requirements.

On 23rd June 1973 a severe engine room fire spread to the accommodation and she had to be abandoned.

Eighty two survivors were picked up by the Liberian tanker George F. Getty and were landed at Ascension.

Taken in tow by the German owned salvage tug Albatros she reached Antwerp on 18th August.

There, the contract for the extensive repairs was awarded to Astilleros Espanoles and, as a result, she was towed to Bilboa by the tug Heros.

Repairs were completed by May in the following year and she was back in service on 31st of that month.

Like her sister, she also had the distinction of appearing on an Ascension Island postage stamp in May 1976.


THe Master of the AMSTERDAM, Holland America, Jonathan Mercer, was a cadet at the time and they spent three days in a lifeboat before landing on Ascension.
Nice fellow and I have sailed with him a few times.
Brian

Bryan D Potgieter
7th October 2018, 10:20 PM
here is the book you are referring to every thursday at 4 o clock - and much to my surprise it was more or less the same as the - golden run book - both by the same author - both my collection